The Pro Football Hall of Fame announced the official list of 173 Modern Era Candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, including nine first year eligible candidates.
Those nine include:
- WR Brandon Marshall
- WR Jordy Nelson
- TE Antonio Gates
- RB Jamaal Charles
- OL TJ Lang
- OL Josh Sitton
- OL Max Unger
- DL Haloti Ngata
- DL Julius Peppers
The full list comprised of 94 offensive, 62 defensive and 17 special teams players can be seen on the Hall of Fame website. The list will be cut down to 25 semifinalists, announced in November.
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Thanks….and let the discussion and debate ensue folks
1.we see once again there is an unofficial character clause with Sharper not being listed despite the record candidates.
2. Too bad the voters don’t love Special teams like the nominating public does, 17 on special teams plus “wide receiver” Devin Hester
3. Expect Leslie O’Neal to get the last year boost, not sure about anyone else
4. Patriots don’t seem to do good on this list with neither Drew Bledsoe or Asante Samuel making this list
There is no unofficial character clause, but let’s be honest the Hall and the voters are never going to put Sharper on that list-would be huge PR nightmare for everyone involved.
173 is 40+ last year (as in recent years it has been 120-130 names) but that is ridiculous.. Hall needs to better filter nominations -as anyone can nominate any player eligible-there is no minimum standard. Voters see two drafts and can add names-but so can fans-before final list is released to public and used to create a ballot for the voters to select their 25 semi-finalists. But its an ineffective and frankly embarrassing outcome to see 173 names (of which 80% have no chance of being elected). Not sure of in past Hall was being more careful to ensure list contained deserving candidates that ended up 130 or less on list, perhaps current staff is not being as through. Have to think voters are now screaming back at Hall to do that and for 2025 list to get it reduced and under control.
You say potato I say potato. If the hall is “never going to put Sharper on that list” as it “would be huge PR nightmare for everyone involved” sure sound like an unofficial character disqualifier clause to me.
Denying that reality makes no sense. If only on play is considered there is no chance sharper is not here, he is unofficially disqualified for offfield behavior, I have no problem with that, what I have a problem with is pretending they don’t have a character clause at least when it comes to serial rape and murder. With the official rules sharper belongs only with an unofficial character clause is he not in. Why people can’t say the truth probably has to do with oj
173 names and Eric Berry, who was named All-Decade just three years ago and to my knowledge doesn’t have Sharper’s character concerns, isn’t among them. Are we sure the Hall is just spewing any rando’s (non-Sharper) suggestion onto the list unfiltered? Cause yeah, that would explain the explosion in nominees, many of them somewhat questionable, and especially the fact that it seems more concentrated in some positions than others (more running backs than wide receivers? Really?), but you wouldn’t expect any player that’s been nominated in the past to be left off in that case, nor any player with a clear statistical case to at least be considered.
(Also, no “unofficial character clause” slowed Ray Lewis at all on his path to the Hall.)
Heres my prediction for the semifinialists
1.Eric Allen
2.Jared Allen
3.Willie Anderson
4.Anquan Boldin
5.Antonio Gates
6.Dwight Freeney
7.Devin Hester
8.Torry Holt
9.Andre Johnson
10.Tom Nalen
11.Haloti Ngata
12.Hardy Nickerson
13.Leslie O Neal
14.Julius Peppers
15.Simeon Rice
16.Justin Smith
17.Steve Smith Sr
18.Hines Ward
19.Reggie Wayne
20.Richmond Webb
21.Patrick Willis
22.Vince Wilfork
23.Kevin Williams
24.Steve Wisniewski
25.Darren Woodson
Sharper situation and Hall elections are completely different than OJs.
Reason Hall isn’t going to discuss why Sharpe isn’t on list as to avoid debate over a character clause, which they won’t consider as it just creates slippery slope as what to include and introduces more problems than the few situations it might address rightfully – such as Sharper.
Of all the Hall issues and debates over process and those elected, fact that a sick horrible person like Sharper won’t ever get in, isn’t worth any attention as he certainly doesn’t deserve any- hope he dies a terrible death and eternity in hell – sooner than later
Fans can nominate any player plus voters get two looks at draft list before it’s finalized and released – voters need to make sure those deserving are included and none missing – one should have added Eric Berry
I like the ballot being stuffed with mostly good to great players. 90%+ won’t make it as a modern era candidate. Carson Palmer should have made the list. Especially over Marc Bulger and Jake Delhomme.
Palmer, Bledsoe, Berry and Matt Forte all deserve to be named if they’re going to list so many names
again, it up to the fans and voters to simply nominate deserving players-can’t blame the PFHOF for those names not appearing as they are not the ones submitting nominations
@Morgan – Eric Berry played less than 100 games, only five full seasons (although great seasons), 3 very injury shortened and one more slightly under half the season. With the list going up that big, a bit of a surprise he isn’t on the initial list–but can’t see him getting in.
Lewis is an interesting counterpoint to Sharper–although, as much as seemingly everyone thinks he was more involved than has ever been admitted, but the facts (as determined by the court at least) say he wasn’t directly involved in the killing, and it was self defense…vs Sharper sitting in a cell for his crimes. I agree that there is essentially an unofficial character disqualifier clause…and is that a bad thing?
Never said it was a bad thing, only a reality, which was denied on the previous thread.
Well not sure really why anyone is surprised voters will not support Sharper and that somehow proved evidence of something (??)…as these voters and others on the committee and senior committee for last few decades have not supported Jim Tyrer…so situation with Sharper is the same.. Again Hall will never discuss nor have a character clause as its a very slippery slope..sure it would clarify the status of candidates like Tyrer and Sharper but would also introduce controversies over other candidates some voters may look to exclude–just look to the mess that is BBHOF and Barry Bonds that a character clause created.
If anyone knows offhand how many of those guys are in their final year of modern eligibility
Paul: I’m thinking a more reasonable number of nominees is between 90-100 is that a more reasonable ranfg?
should say range
There is no question that the hall of fame voters have an unofficial character clause.
What Sharper likely show is the hall itself has the same unofficial character clause. I think it is highly unlikely that no one nominated Sharper, I think what likely happened is the hall just removed his name from consideration because the hall itself has an unofficial character clause even if they are all liar and hypocrites for claiming they don’t.
I am not advocating for Sharper, Tyrer etc. to be in, only for them to stop pretending that the hall only considers on the field issues, while clearly banning certain people who are overwhelmingly qualified based on the official rules. The hall should just make it official that certain crimes (murder/suicide and serial date rape, but not lying and probably much worse in a murder investigation) will ban being a hall member despite otherwise deserving it. And to avoid an OJ problem just make it clear the hall also never kicks people out. The hall is trying to have it’s cake and eat it to and they end up looking even worse. If OJ should not be kicked out of the hall because only on the field play is relevant as they claimed for decades now, then Sharper, and Tyrer belong.
Curiosity Paul do you think if OJ first became eligible for the hall after the 2nd trial do you think he is in the hall today?
Finally if we are going to have an unofficial character clause I have a much bigger problem with Simpson and Ray Lewis being in the hall, than if Sharper made it.
Here are a list of all the currently eligible players who were ever semi finalists with last year of modern eligibility
1. Jared Allen finalist last year 2040
2. Willie Anderson finalist last year 2033
3. Dwight Freeney finalist last year 2042
4. Devin Hester finalist last year 2041
5. Torry Holt finalist last year 2034
6. Andre Johnson finalist last year 2041
7. Reggie Wayne finalist last year 2039
8. Patrick Willis finalist last year 2039
9. Darren Woodson finalist last year 2028
10. Eric Allen semi-finalist last year 2026
11. Anquan Boldin semi-finalist last year 2041
12. Jahri Evans semi-finalist last year 2042
13. London Fletcher semi-finalist last year 2038
14. James Harrison semi-finalist last year 2042
15. Rodney Harrison semi-finalist last year 2033
16. Robert Mathis semi-finalist last year 2041
17. Steve Smith semi-finalist last year 2041
18. Fred Taylor semi-finalist last year 2035
19. Hines Ward semi-finalist last year 2036
20. Ricky Watters semi-finalist last year 2026
21. Vince Wilfork semi-finalist last year 2041
22. Eddie George semi-finalist in 2022 2029
23. Cornelius Bennett semi-finalist in 2021 2025
24. Simeon Rice semi-finalist in 2020 2032
25. Leslie O’Neal semi-finalist in 2018 2024
26. Steve Wisniewski semi-finalist in 2014 2026
No clue if anyone besides Gates and Peppers is likely to make semi finalist this year from the newbies
Here are my 25 Finalists
1. Julius Peppers DE
2 Antonio Gates TE
3. Torry Holt WR
4. Patrick Willis LB
5. Reggie Wayne WR
6. Jared Allen DE
7. Willie Anderson T
8. Darren Woodson S
9. Devin Hester ST
10. Leslie O’Neal DE
11. Steve Smith jr. WR
12. Dwight Freeney DE
13. Richmond Webb T
14. Jahri Evans G
15. Himes Ward WR
16. Eric Allen CB
17. La’ Roi Glover DT
18. Cornelius Bennett LB
19. Kevin Williams DT
20. Anquan Boldin WR
21. Haloti Ngata DT
22. James Harrison LB
23. Steve Wisniewski G
24. Vince Wilfork DT
25. Olin Kruetz C
I don’t think the voters or Hall look worse but keeping Sharper out…. In fact I think they look better in the eyes of the public and fans.. Hence reason they don’t care as fans don’t either. Your obsession over any unofficial character clause is simply yours and to the rest of us it’s a non-issue especially considering the many more significant and relevant issues and debates about the election process and results
“Finally if we are going to have an unofficial character clause I have a much bigger problem with Simpson and Ray Lewis being in the hall, than if Sharper made it.“
First you just showed why Hall doesn’t have a character clause and never will plus WOW perhaps you need to think more carefully about the facts in the Lewis case and most importantly the facts in the Sharped case dude as your support to see Sharpe considered (hence potential to be elected) clearly indicates you have serious failure to understand and appreciate his hideous crimes. Says a lot about you there buddy.
Assuming the likelihood they keep all 9 finalists from last year and gates and peppers get added to the finalists who are the 4 remaining new players?
My guess is they don’t go with another backlog wide receiver until someone is voted in.
Assuming o’neal gets a boost due to his last year but that to me is the big question going forward in this year.
Paul murder is worse than rape. And I am not convinced that lewis was not a part of it.
My goal is for the hall to be honest, I do NOT want sharper in the hall. I want them to stop lying and saying only in the field things are considered and then exclude sharper or tyrer who then clearly belong. Make this unofficial character clause offical and stop pretending it doesnt exist.
I only brought this up here in response to the critique on the kicking on out in the previous discussion.
Morally I much rather have oj out and sharper in, than oj in and sharper out. Murdering 2 people is much worse than raping 20 or so women, if that means I support rapenso be it, but the same crooked logic means that others support murder.
I was going to end this discussion because it was going nowhere but I don’t want anyone to thin I excuse rape or for that matter are advocating sharper for the hall.
I strongly belive being an accessory to Murder is worse than serial rape. If that means I don’t appreciate the severity of rape I say the same for you and murder.
And lewis looks worse than sharper does not mean I support or excuse sharper. Lewis literally got away with (accessory to) murder.
I do NOT support sharper for the hall. I just want them to stop pretending only on the field play counts when that is clearly not true. With the current offical rules sharper and tyrer belong in the hall, stop the cognizant dissidence that there is no character clause. I as opposed to you just want to make an unofficial rule that goes against the official ones an official rule.
I know that oj in the hall and sharper out is much worse morally than sharper in and oj out. I’m not advocating sharper in I just want honesty.
It is hypocracy YT, but Tyrer and Sharper wont get elected. The HOF doesnt want the bad publicity.
I truly hope O’ Neil can get to the finals because he could stop the run as well as rush the passer. A deserving player, IMO.
Dont be surprised if Brandon Marshall makes the semifinals. A popular player when he played, who was better in Denver with Jay Cutler.
Brian my point is they should change the rules, not that Tyrer belongs, I don’t think he belongs (making a bust of a murder is terrible), but fact is he clearly belongs under the current rules, they should change them, it is not hard to change the rules to keep Sharper and Tyrer out and leave Lewis and SImpson in, and have it affect no one else ,by making clear rules.
1. the hall is based on a period of time when elected even if they would, should or could not be elected under the current rules, and we don’t believe in changing the historical record.
2. anyone convicted of a serious crime (murder rape etc.) or died before there was a chance to with the likihood of such conviction taking place is ineligible for future elections.
My point is very clear under the current rules (which should be changed) Sharper and Tyrer belong and there is no possible reason to exclude them, CHANGE THE RULES. I don’t have a problem with the voters under the current rules refusing to elect either of them, because they don’t want to reward criminals (unless his name is Ray Lewis) and they can’t change the rules, however the hall shadow banning Sharper is wrong because they have the ability to actually ban him, and not play games
Hopefully that end the unofficial character clause debate
I prefer Irving Fryar to Brandon Marshall (of course both these 2 also have major legal issues, which is why the hall should actually clarify what there standard for unofficial bans really is)
I think we could start talking Keenan Allen and the HOF sorta soon. He is quietly approaching 1k receptions. Monster game today. I know we might see a bunch of 1k reception players the next 10-15 years but still an impressive feat.
“I strongly belive being an accessory to Murder is worse than serial rape. “. This is exactly the reason why Hall won’t comment and would not change anything. You perfectly exhibit why character clauses simply don’t work as no one (including voters) can uniformly assess when to apply it. And it’s not role of Hall and voters to serve as judge jury and prosecutor, evaluating evidence etc…Even discussing it creates public outrage that serves no purpose to the Hall and elections.
Watching the NFL games in recent times I’ve come to the conclusion there’s a whole lot of stupid head coaching going on. LOL I don’t care what the metrics say.
As far as murder versus serial rapist it’s apples and oranges of evil sin. Actually murder can have extenuating circumstances like if the person was suffering with a mental defect such as CTE. Unfortunately there’s no way to know with Tyrer so I think he should be ruled out of HOF. Sharper should also never be in the HOF. I can’t say what he did wasn’t worse as far as human impact.
And worth noting that PFHOF is a private non-profit organization, they can set rules or not, even ignore rules as they are only accountable to themselves (board) and in case of candidate eligibility they are not subject to any requirements set by NFL or state/federal laws. Voters can raise questions or request modification of ruled (as they have done in last) but failing that no amount of public media or fans is going to force Hall to comment on or adjust their election rules
Keenan Allen has had a great career, though his TDs are low compared to Mike Evans, who has a better HOF case. Can Allen continue to stay healthy though? This team needs him because Mike Williams is injured again. Ekeler is still out as well and you wonder if management is playing a role in that?
Keenan Allen seeming rose to the top of the WR tree for a very short time and then injuries began to hinder him. He does what he does awful well (sure handed) but his yards per catch would be very low for a HOFer. Hines Ward is as low as I go at 12.1 for that type of player and he had some intangibles. Unless Allen brings up his level to his best for 2-3 years in his 30’s I don’t see him as having much of a chance at HOF. Williams out might help his usage or they will lean more on Ekeler ?
Irving Fryar isn’t a HOF player and I really like him. He was great with Dan Marino for a short time. There are just some players even though sometimes excellent you just know didn’t have a HOF career. HOVG!! lol I suppose people can rewrite history.
At least Richmond Webb made the list with it being expanded.
Worth noting, the class of 2024 modern preliminary list was not “expanded” by any action of the Hall or the voters..was result of more fans submitting nominations (which anyone can do) and perhaps same by the voters. Hall does not run actual election, they have set policies for election procedures but at this stage just collect the names (and yes I know they have ability to take names off). Was just pointing out that Hall did not expand the # of players to be on the list-it just happened to grow. I personally know a fan – not me LOL – who sent in 40+ names this year who were not on 2023 list and many were added-he alone likely contributed to much of the jump from 130+ in 2023 to current 173.
” And it’s not role of Hall and voters to serve as judge jury and prosecutor, evaluating evidence etc”
Lewis was convicted of obstructing justice in a murder investigation, in a plea bargain.
Sharper, and Tyrer not being in shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is an unofficial character clause that still allows people (Ray Lewis) who did worse crimes (Sharper not Tyrer)
Unless you truly think that their on the field play Tyrer and Sharper don’t belong in the hall, then you do admit there is a character clause, and you just happen to not care that Lewis is an accessory to murder. The question to me is do you have a serious failure to understand and appreciate Lewis’s crime, or do you think that being a first tear hall of famer waves the unofficial character clause. but you yourself admitted that there is one even if you were playing word games to try and deny it.
I’ll take Fryar over Stallworth , his career numbers at retirement (meaning where he ranked in relation to others, not talking total numbers) are higher than Stallworths. Fryar is somewhat like a Frank Gore of wide receivers. Being very good for a really long time is great.
There is no character clause and the crime that Lewis was found guilty of is far less serious and those of Sharper and Tyrer. Your failure to understand that is stunning. We can’t speculate but only go by facts in case and charges one was guilty of. Which goes back to my point that none of us including voters and the Hall should serve as judge jury and prosecutors. Our debates among whether players should be in the Hall shouldn’t be based on speculation about a candidates actions but crimes they were guilty of. And you seem to continue to fail to understand that fundamental need.
Simpson > tyrer > Lewis > sharper
This is how their crimes rate.
And there is a on unofficial character clause on sharper. According to the actual rules of the hall he clearly belongs, if the cowardly hall wants to ban sharper they should make their rules clear because sharpers evil actions never led to someone’s death and other hall of famers did.
If the hall wants to ban sharper there are numerous honest ways to do so but they are cowards hypocrites and have a crooked sense of morals that ban a rapist but celebrate a murderer like simpson.
4 disgusting humans, and if we are going to talk convictions tyrer was never convicted and theoretically may have gotten off with an insanity plee.
If the hall wants to ban sharper there are numerous ways to do so without lying. The hall has no moral legs to stand on their official reason for not tossing Simpson is not because he was already elected but the hall only considers on the field play.
the hall doesn’t even have a footnote about OJ’s murder
they include OJ’s induction speech which included this line
“My wife, Nicole who, came into my 1ife at what is probably the most difficult time for an athlete, at the end of my career. And she turned those years into some of the best years I’ve had in my 1ife, babes.”
but not a word that he murdered her, the hall has no right to preach morality until they deal with the OJ situation.
They even have a page where you can buy OJ Collectibles & Apparel
and there is this article from ESPN when OJ got out of prison
“Contacted Friday about the possibility of Simpson attending the yearly event, Hall of Fame officials said, “All Hall of Famers are invited to attend the annual enshrinement.””
There are plenty of ways to not change the record for OJ but not honor him. Sharper is despicable but theoretically all those he harmed could have forgiven him, murdered people can’t forgive that easily, first you have to raise the dead.
from the hall’s website (guess unless it is Sharper)
“It is important to emphasize that the Hall of Fame itself has no say whatsoever as to who is or is not elected to membership. The only function of the staff is to process the nominations as they arrive and to coordinate the annual meeting.”
some voters on OJ
“When we vote on players for the Hall of Fame, we have a clear mandate: Only what happens between the white lines counts. Citizenship, either during his career or 20 years after it, doesn’t matter. And I don’t think it should”
peter King
“If he had been convicted of what we all assume he did and someone moved to change the by-laws, I’d be for it”
notice that the by laws (which were never changed should have allowed Simpson and also Sharper and Tyrer, but truth doesn’t matter or double homicide for that matter)
He is recognized by the Pro Football Hall of Fame for his on-field achievements and excellence. His off-field activities are separate. That’s been my stance when I consider any candidate, and the Hall encourages selectors to consider a player’s on-field credentials only”
Nancy Gay
“Off-the-field incidents are never considered. Some selectors may have personal views, but that should never impact the objectivity regarding one’s football-playing ability. O.J. was one hell of a runner”
John Czarnecki
Too bad I can’t find the articles from when there was a move back after he was arrested with the response to those advocating removing oj from the hall
In regards to Lewis the more I look into it the more guilty he looks (just saw Steven H. Sadow piece on trial)
OJ situation is completely different than Sharper (or Tyrer) as whether voters would consider a candidate convicted of a serious crime is not same as a HOF attempting to even consider a process to remove an existing member (a process which currently does not exist for any major pro sports HOF).
So as a separate issue, I think OJ was responsible for the death of two people (and was found libel in the civil case)…but PFHOF is not going to add that to his bio (which for all PFHOFers only focuses on the football career) as to why should they? Since they are PFHOFers based on their playing career-if they did, Hall would need to do same for many other PFHOFers with very controversial post career lives (LT, Favre..just to name two) nor will they remove his bust or that of others-of course the Hall can also choose (as they apparently already do) to not give him paid speaking/appearance events,or widely promote him in their various marketing campaigns, as they do for many PFHOFers. And yes he can attend the annual enshrinement events and they sell items with his name on it. But for the most part he is simply a ghost when it comes to things associated with the PFHOF. You are asking the Hall to take steps in regards to current PFHOFers,some elected decades ago, that is not within their mission which is solely focused on their playing careers.
In regards to Lewis, look more broadly…. as there a lot of assumptions made by members of the media fans-plus labeling him a murder that are not correct..https://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-five-misconceptions-about-ray-lewis-murder-trial/
Do I think Lewis is a great guy and should not be held accountable for his actions-no, and has faced the legal system. And the public scorn directed at him is understandable and fine. But his PFHOF situation is still far different from those of Sharper or Tyrer who were responsible and found guilty for their hideous crimes.
Finally for all we know, a group of voters (who actually have final say on the preliminary list) told the Hall staff to remove Sharpers name as they don’t what him considered. But regardless of who took that step, let’s hope he never appears on the list and spends rest of his life and eternity paying for his actions and forgotten-not recognized or even hear is name expressed publicly-ever again. Hope he rots to death in jail.
And your continued support for Sharper (and somehow considering his crime-for which he was convicted-was less than Lewis, and Lewis was never on trial for murder-and a case for which no one was guilty of murder due to self defense, which Lewis was not part of) is a weird take given Sharper was found guilty in multiple cases, state and federal charges, of numerous crimes of rape and sexual assault, against as many as 16 different woman. That’s one sick individual, not sure why anyone would work so hard as to support his name appearing as candidate for the PFHOF-who spends so much time and effort on that bastard? Especially when no one…. and I mean no one… involved with pro football or the PFHOF-including the Hall, league, voters, media or fans cares one bit-in fact most think he should instead be spending rest of life in jail for his crimes. Perhaps you should take up another hobby or advocate for a player actually deserving of the honor and recognition or improving election process for one of those candidates. You have a weird obsession with Sharper
Agreed paul it’s a weird obsession
1. Your statement as to kicking people out of other halls is not true as Gil Stein, Alan Eagleson were kicked out of the hockey hall of fame.
2. “responsible for the death of two people ” can’t use the word MURDER
3. you wrote”which for all PFHOFers only focuses on the football career” This is not true at all.
Alan Page
“After retiring from pro football, Page became a lawyer and was elected to the Minnesota Supreme Court”
4. Putting up his speech thanking the woman he later murdered without a footnote is a statement in support of murder
5. Neither Taylor nor Favre are as egregious as OJ.
6. “And yes he can attend the annual enshrinement events and they sell items with his name on it. ” and that is not supporting a murderer?
7. Please don’t give me the cliff notes version of the Ray Lewis trial by a sport reporter, I read way more on this including the piece I cited you by one of the defense attorneys and you give me the biased cliff notes.
8. don’t care who banned him against the rules the proper course is not to allow him, or shadow ban him ,but officially change the rules to ban him.
9. Lewis was put on trial for murder, 2 weeks into the trial they gave him a plea bargain in order to get him to testify against his cohorts. (your reading biased cliff notes makes you miss the actual facts of the case)
10. Sharper pled guilty and thus never had a trial, Tyrer committed suicide so obviously he was never convicted and theoretically could have gotten a insanity deal.
11. I already said explicitly I do NOT support Sharper for the hall, I don’t appreciate you continuing to make that false allegation.
At the expense of sounding like a broken record, once again I do NOT support Sharper, I just want the hall to make their unofficial policy official. According to their actual rules he belongs, they CORRECTLY think he doesn’t belong (though their OJ love proves it is NOT for moral reasons, but bad media), I want them to actually change their bylaws and stop playing games.
I’m done with this because you clearly are not only ignoring and changing what I said.
You are also twisting up stuff like Ray Lewis never stood trial, and saying complete falsehoods that the hall only has football related stuff on it’s bio pages.
This is my last comment about this because you clearly are lying about me supporting Sharper for the hall, and even worse are excusing the hall inviting Simpson to the hall, and gave Ray Lewis propaganda to excuse him. The only logical conclusion is you have less of a problem with a double murder than serial rape, or you are a puppet for the hall’s wrong policy of celebrating a double murderer. It seems you either you don’t think murder is so bad or the more likely option is you are a shill for the hall.
1. Your statement as to kicking people out of other halls is not true as Gil Stein, Alan Eagleson were kicked out of the hockey hall of fame.
– they both ultimately voluntarily resigned from Hall- HHOF did not remove them (they had no process to do so, were debating what to but had not taken action and never did….still do not have one), guess you missed the facts on those two…
2. “responsible for the death of two people ” can’t use the word MURDER
– who cares what word is used..point is the same
3. you wrote”which for all PFHOFers only focuses on the football career” This is not true at all.
Alan Page
“After retiring from pro football, Page became a lawyer and was elected to the Minnesota Supreme Court”
– so does every PFHOF official bio list what they did after they played? do any point crimes or other issues??
4. Putting up his speech thanking the woman he later murdered without a footnote is a statement in support of murder
– how does one link a speech made years before that crime? should we just erase that speech from history? Have no idea what that has to do with idea that he should be removed….weird….
5. Neither Taylor nor Favre are as egregious as OJ.
-but are yet more examples why a policy to remove HOFers does not exist nor should one
6. “And yes he can attend the annual enshrinement events and they sell items with his name on it. ” and that is not supporting a murderer?
– again he is a PFHOFer, no HOF has policies that ban an elected HOFer, not sure why you can’t understand that basic fact or why HOF don’t want to get drawn in such cases… and alas rather then simply stay on the Sharper debate you draw in other unrelated cases and circumstances of others not related to his situation as it comes to election to PFHOF..
7. Please don’t give me the cliff notes version of the Ray Lewis trial by a sport reporter, I read way more on this including the piece I cited you by one of the defense attorneys and you give me the biased cliff notes. – by a reporter who actually attended the trial and reported on it, so you choose to selectively ignore the basic facts he presents?? You would prefer to act as judge, jury and prosecutor against Lewis, and then expect the voters and Hall staff/Board to do the same???
8. don’t care who banned him against the rules the proper course is not to allow him, or shadow ban him ,but officially change the rules to ban him. – nope ignore the bastard I say….
9. Lewis was put on trial for murder, 2 weeks into the trial they gave him a plea bargain in order to get him to testify against his cohorts. (your reading biased cliff notes makes you miss the actual facts of the case) – trial in which no one was ever found guilty of murder..and one in which Lewis was not a defendant … jury heard evidence and outcome was self defense by two parties-neither of whom were Lewis, as they was no evidence to trial him hence prosecution did not pursue..
10. Sharper pled guilty and thus never had a trial, Tyrer committed suicide so obviously he was never convicted and theoretically could have gotten a insanity deal….why is lack of a trial for Sharper even an issue here? Bastard is a serial rapist..as to Tyrer the facts and evidence are that he murdered someone (see I do know how to use that word) or if you prefer, Tyrer was a killer..don’t care for excuses or what he may have claimed in legal defense-he was a murderer…that is the fact
11. I already said explicitly I do NOT support Sharper for the hall, I don’t appreciate you continuing to make that false allegation. – for a guy you apparently don’t support you have spent a lot time here advocating for him to be considered plus (perhaps even worse) suggesting his crimes are less than Lewis-even though the facts and evidences of both clearly show that not to be the case.
Again OJ was a double murder-but removing someone from the Hall is different than issues involving Sharper- no Hall has removed or has a procedure for removing an elected HOFer..but for some weird reasons you can’t or even acknowledge the fundamental difference there. Lewis was not found guilty of murder or any crime even close to Sharper–yet in building your defense for Sharper you choose to ignore his crimes and spend plenty of time focusing on Lewis…its a bizarre approach and vibe you have with all this..some people and processes need to be debated and criticized, this is not one of them..just thinking of how one could actually channel all that into someone productive involving PFHOF candidates and elections….like hmmmmmmmmm…. supporting great candidates who really deserve the honor…just let Sharper rot in jail, in life and for all eternity…
There is no evidence (that resulted in court case) that Lewis was double murderer, in fact the evidence and facts in a court of law (and viewed by a jury of peers) did not find anyone, including two ultimately tried for murder, guilty of that crime. Lewis has a number of questionable character issues as do many other PFHOFers or candidates-none of which and none of them deserve to be removed from the Hall.
Though all this you are clearly wrong, been challenged, are more defensive about your position rather than cede to how the vast majority of fans and others feel about Sharper not being a candidate
1. Eagleson resigned right before the vote, and Stein was about to be kicked out also (they were saving face)
2. words matter
3. I think the OJ non player information is a little bit more important the Alan Pages, it is basic decency to the people that were murdered by a man they are glorifying.
4. to Moral people putting up a speech demands context that could be put on his bio, if the hall keeps OJ they should say something that He was elected before he murdered his ex wife Nicole and her friend Ron. It should clearly be mentioned as a decency to his victims, right now the only hint on the hall website towards the murder is the murderer praising the victim, if that is not disgusting I don’t know what is.
5. Theoretically what would you say if if a player in the hall was caught throwing a superbowl? The response from hall during the oj fiasco was mostly that only on the field play counted.
6. Simpson being celebrated by the hall (inviting him back is a celebration) is much worse than keeping him in there as a historical record with the understanding that he doesn’t belong. Simpson being in the hall was the impetus to this entire conversation. on the previous thread you were falsely claiming there is no unofficial character ban, and thus the person advocating kicking OJ out was wrong. I was just showing the the hall is shadow banning Sharper to show that there was one.
7. There was nothing in there I do not know, and plenty I do
8. not saying to ban him by name, ban him by making clear rules that would cover him and others. Right now they are saying murdering your wife and her friend is acceptable, abetting a murder is great, but serial rape and a murder suicide are wrong.
9. Lewis was on trial but accepted a plea bargin, trials don’t always get it correct Once again OJ.
10. You missed the point the prosecution gave a plea bargain not because they though Lewis was not guilty but they wanted to get the bigger fish. Not having a trial doesn’t mean he wasn’t guilty
11. I don’t want Sharper in the hall, I do want a clear policy from the hall Ray Lewis (who is an abettor to murder) is a “worthy” hall of fame pick because only on the field accomplishments count, and Sharper is not despite the rules only allowing on the field play. WHAT I WANT IS CLEAR RULES THAT ARE MORALLY SOUND THAT WOULD BAN ALL NEW SUPER EVIL PLAYERS, AND AT LEAST MAKE IT CLEAR THAT SIMPSON AND LEWIS MADE THE HALL BEFORE THOSE RULES AND THE HALL DOESN’T WANT TO DISTORT THE HISTORICAL RECORD, AND MAKE IT CLEAR THEY ARE A MURDERER AND AN ACCESSORY TO MURDER. BAN BOTH FROM FUTURE HALL EVENTS, AND MAKE IT CLEAR MENTION OF THOSE THEY MURDERED AND HELPED MURDER BY MENTIONED ON THEIR WEBPAGE, GET RID OF PAGES THAT ARE NOT FOR THE RECORD, AND MAKE DO SOMETHING THAT THEIR BUST IS NOT AN HONOR.
“yet in building your defense for Sharper you choose to ignore his crimes and spend plenty of time focusing on Lewis…its a bizarre approach and vibe you have with all this”
only because that is NOT what I’m doing, I do not want Sharper in, I want the hall to officially ban those who commit serious crimes like serial rape and more so accessory to murder
“just let Sharper rot in jail, in life and for all eternity…”
1st thing you said here I agree with
“Though all this you are clearly wrong, been challenged, are more defensive about your position rather than cede to how the vast majority of fans and others feel about Sharper not being a candidate”
Because you keep distorting what I’m saying, according to the current bad rules Sharper belongs, change the rules. the problem is they should have changed the rules, decades ago after tyrer and certainly after the OJ storm, but the hall from OJ until the storm about Sharper being nominated after being convicted kept on saying only on the field play counts, the hall instead of being honest correcting this problem that is 4 decades old says only on field play and then when there is trouble plays games with their standard instead of honestly changing it like they should have done decades ago.
Paul unless I’m missing something here is are dispute as it relates only to sharper
Me
Sharper does not belong in the hall despite his playing career being worthy, according to the current rules that only allow on field reasons he belongs in the hall, so change the rules ASAP.
You
Sharper does not belong in the hall despite his playing career being worthy (assuming you agree with this statement), the hall should not change the rules to explicitly ban players committing certain crimes from being elected. And sharper should still not be elected, and the hall should ban him from even being nominated despite the fact that according to the letter of their own rules, which they can change at any moment he obviously belongs
Hopefully that will end this lie that I want sharper in the hall once and for all.
Been awhile since I posted, so I apologize in advance for the brain dump here.
Quite the expanded this year, especially at running back! Normally I call out a list of snubs, but quite a few of my usual suspects actually were nominated this year including:
Rich Gannon
Herman Moore
Bruce Armstrong
Mark Stepnoski
Hardy Nickerson
Joey Porter
Carnell Lake
David Akers
For the first time in awhile, I don’t really see any glaring omissions from the list. There were only 9 players from last year’s preliminary list that didn’t return (outside of those whose eligibility lapsed and those who were inducted), and most of them were Hall of Very Good at best:
Roddy White
Dallas Clark
D’Brickashaw Ferguson
Jordan Gross
Clyde Simmons
Chad Brown
Asante Samuel
Adrian Wilson
Ryan Longwell
Samuel and Wilson definitely are somewhat of a miss, but they aren’t players that were potentially going to make the semi-finalist list. The rest will never make the Hall of Fame.
Hoping as others have indicated that Leslie O’Neal gets a solid “final year” bump. By my eyeballing, he’s one of only 4 1999 retirees on the list (Nate Newton, Tim McDonald and Kevin Glover are the others). I think that Newton and McDonald have potential cases as seniors. but they have little to no momentum, and seem very unlikely to get to the semi-finalist stage.
The next 2 years are going to have a significant amount of borderline candidates finishing off their 20 years of modern eligibility (Ben Coates, Neil Smith, Cornelius Bennett, Eric Allen, Ricky Watters, Randall Cunningham, Mark Stepnoski, Steve Wisniewski, Carnell Lake). That’s 6 1990’s all-decade players, 2 guys who made Pro Football Reference 1990’s All-Decade team and a former MVP. None of those guys have made it past the semi-finalist stage at this point. Perhaps with this year being a bit light on newly-eligible candidates, a couple of those players get a bump?
Out of the newly eligible players, Peppers and Gates are obviously the standouts. They both have pretty good chances to be first-ballot inductees. If they don’t get in immediately, their wait will be very short.
Haloti Ngata has an interesting case, and you could compare him to recent HOFers Bryant Young and Joe Klecko based on his versatility. That said, his 32 career sacks definitely stand out as a weakness on his resume even if he was an outstanding run stuffer and has a Super Bowl ring. Electing him would be a little precedent setting for the HOF, so I would expect a longer wait for him.
Brandon Marshall has much, much better counting stats than I would have expected and he made 6 Pro Bowls, so he belongs in the conversation. That said, he bounced around to several teams and never appeared in a single playoff game. That didn’t hurt Joe Thomas…but he was Joe Thomas. Marshall was obviously a great player, and made a Pro Bowl on 4 separate teams, but he didn’t seem to help those teams win. His career looks very similar to Chad Johnson’s, and if Johnson hasn’t been able to break through yet, I don’t like Marshall’s chances.
Love the Buddy Parker nomination for the coaches. Coughlin was a wildcard in that he was the first really good candidate to become newly-eligible since coaches received their own category. I don’t think he’ll wait long. My guess is that him and Holmgren are next up.
I don’t love McMichael or Powell as seniors…there were obviously better choices, but I can’t say they would be terrible choices in isolation. McMichael was the best DT from his era not in the HOF, and was a key player on one of the best defenses of all time. Powell had a monster 7 years in the AFL, but that was his entire career. Not sure that a short peak like that really deserves induction, though he was the clear #3 best receiver in the AFL behind Alworth and Maynard (with Hennigan being a clear #4 due to his even shorter career).
Gradishar is obviously an amazing nominee. I can forgive the senior committee a bit for McMichael and Powell since for the second year in a row, they arguably nominated the best player from the senior pool. If he gets inducted, I hope it opens the door for Maxie Baughan. Getting Howley, Gradishar and Baughan in would likely knock LB off its perch as the position needing the most attention from the senior pool.
Hall does not need to change rules for Sharper-let him riot in jail as no one cares that he’s not being considered.
There simply is no need for Hall to publicly comment on his omission or draw any attention him to making effort to change any rules just to cover his candidacy – when it would only open a can of worms with media and some fans then disputing cases of other current/future candidates and even current PFHOFer as to judgements whether they should be elected or removed. As our discussion has shown. One does not change a policy to address one specific case/issue/person when such a change is not needed but only creates more problems than it solves. Myself along with pretty much every other fan, member of media and voter simply don’t care that he’s not being considered.
for future reference (many be missing a few, but here are ones with fair resume to at least appear on ballot):
PFHOF last Year as Modern Candidate
2024 (1999) Tim McDonald, Merton Hanks, Nate Newton, Kevin Glover, Daryl Johnston, Leslie O’Neal
2025 (2000) Andre Rison, Ken Norton Jr., Clyde Simmons, Eddie Murray, Irving Fryar, Bryce Paup, Mark Schlereth (G/C), Ben Coates, Neil Smith, Cornelius Bennett
2026 (2001) Steve Wisniewski, Carnell Lake, Mark Stepnoski, Randall Cunningham, Erik Williams, Eric Allen, Ricky Watters
2027 (2002) Lomas Brown, Herman Moore, Eric Metcalf, Levon Kirkland, Richmond Webb, Hardy Nickerson
2028 (2003) Jessie Armstead, Wesley Walls, Brian Mitchell, Michael Bates, Dana Stubblefield, Larry Centers, Darren Woodson
DWoodson made final 15 for class of 2023-clearly has enough support from voters to have really good chance at eventual election as modern. Watters has been recent repeat semifinalist but needs to start making move up to finalist. O’Neil going to have real hard time in 2024 election -his last year as modern-given all the likely finalists as pass rushers on ballot (Allen, Peppers,Freeney). Neil Smith, Cornelius Bennett, Steve Wisniewski,Randall Cunningham, Eric Allen (recent seminfinalist), Richmond Webb seem to be candidates that need to start moving along in process first as semi-finalist and then in coming years as finalist to be at least considered (presented and discussed as modern by the voters) before they fall off the ballot.and like Albert Lewis case showed, if voters wait until last year to finally make a deserving candidate as finalist it is likely too late to get them in.
I really don’t see easy or possible path for any of others as modern PFHOFers-plenty of HOVG names there.
only ones that are in my hall of fame paul are the following : Eric Allen Cornelius Bennett Richmond Webb Steve Wisniewski Leslie O Neal
The one I want the most out of those Paul mentioned was Brian Mitchell the former career record holder for most total yards. Special teams keeps getting shafted.
agreed with you 100% yt on brian mitchell he was a beast on special teams
BTW Paul
of the 8 hall of famers who I originally looked up their hall of Bio pages to see if their non football information was mentioned 5 were mentioned, then I looked up those with unnoteworthy baseball careers and 3 out of 5 were mentioned.
Bob St Clair
“He also became active in politics during his playing career and once served as the mayor of Daly City, California.”
Alan Page
“After retiring from pro football, Page became a lawyer and was elected to the Minnesota Supreme Court.”
Cal Hubbard
“During the summers in Green Bay, Hubbard began umpiring baseball games. In 1936, he began a new career as an American League umpire. He became almost as famous as a baseball umpire as he had been as a football player. In 1958 he was appointed umpire-in-chief of the American League. Hubbard is the only person to be enshrined in both the Baseball and Pro Football Hall of Fames.”
Jim Thorpe
“Of mixed French, Irish, and Sac and Fox Indian heritage, Thorpe was born in a one-room cabin in Oklahoma, but when he was sixteen his father sent him to the Carlisle Institute, a school for Indian youth. His Native-American name was Wa-Tho-Huk, meaning “Bright Path,” something he was destined to follow in the sports world.
Excellent at every sport he tried, he gained his greatest fame by winning the decathlon and pentathlon events at the 1912 Olympics, only to have his medals taken away because he had once been paid to play minor-league baseball (the medals were restored posthumously in 1982). Although he played six seasons of major-league baseball, football always remained his favorite sport.”
Alex Karras
During the off season, Karras kept busy as a national television personality. Karras passed away on Oct. 10, 2012 at the age of 77.
The others were Congressman Steve Largent, Outfielder Deion Sanders, Jim Brown (let’s just say his post sports life is longer on Wikipedia page than his football information)
Cubs player for all of 13 games Paddy Driscoll, Yankees player for all of 12 games George Halas both not mentioned at all
mentioned their baseball career though some can be argued they are in a football context
Red Badgro
The Badgro saga is even more unusual in that he wasn’t even sure he wanted to play pro football and, in fact, retired after one year with the NFL’s 1927 New York Yankees to give pro baseball a try.
Ernie Nevers
After he finished his Stanford career, Nevers signed pro basketball and baseball contracts and, in fact was destined to throw two homerun pitches to Babe Ruth in his historic 60-home run season in 1927. But pro football also beckoned. In 1926, Nevers turned pro with the NFL’s Duluth Eskimos.
Ace Parker
His ambition was to be a major league baseball player and he signed a contract with the Philadelphia Athletics. But after the 1937 baseball season, he obtained permission from the Athletics to give pro football a try.
Interestingly, it was baseball and not the huge NFL linemen that Ace faced every weekend that proved to be the biggest stumbling block in his career. Broken ankles twice endangered his pro football career and, in 1940, he won Most Valuable Player honors in the NFL even though he had suffered a broken left ankle in a summer baseball game that year.
I expect if Lavvie Dilweg is ever elected that his congressional career would be mentioned, say there is a 50/50 Steve McMichael’s wrestling career will be motioned
as they say….. “Let it go, let it go…”
LOL
Curious question Paul will the selection committee go mainly offense or defense or a mixture
RIP Russ Francis
Hard to say Robert…I think voters will go with Peppers and at least one WR from 2023 final 10 list plus Allen,….. 2D/1O and Gates likely has support–which could get us to 2D/ 2O -and 5th could be a 2nd WR or perhaps Willis or a complete surprise…seems like 2/3 split is most likely…. in either direction… but I don’t see 4 from defense or 4 from offense…
appreciate the feedback paul if thats the way they could go this could possibly be the class of 2024
Allen
Gates
Holt
Peppers
Woodson
that set of 5 is certainly among the possibilities- but as all us regulars on here know..even getting 4/5 predictions right isn’t easy…and I think 2024 will be the same with a 5th slot very unpredictable.. I think the big unknown for voters is how/if they address the WR backlog–I am pretty certain one gets elected (Johnson or Holt) also some think they may elect both WRs. But I look at 2023 final ten remaining (3 WRs plus Allen) and then we have Peppers and Gates-that’s six serious candidates right there.. and possible Woodson or Willis makes a move…seems unlikely Freeney, Wayne, or WAnderson jump to election. 2025 election (only one strong 1st ballot in Kuechly) sure looks like a make-up year for 2024 finalists not elected. (and no I don’t think Eli in 2025 is going to be 1st ballot elected)
my guess at the 15 they will pick
the 9 returning candidates from last year plus Gates and Peppers seem like the obvious likely choices, Think Leslie O’Neal will get a last year bonus, With 2 Cornerbacks being elected last year, think Eric Allen advances. Jahri Evans get a nod as the only remaining offensive lineman in the queue (not counting Wisniewski being a semi finalist in 14, there has never been only 1 offensive lineman since there were 15 modern era candidates). Think James Harrison’s recent comments help him especially as there is only 1 line backer on the finalist list.
I think too many pass rushers and wide receivers that I expect to make the 15 this year prevents any others from those positions from advancing this year.
giving defense 8 offense 6 and 1 ST
The 15 I think have the best chance
Eric Allen
Jared Allen
Willie Anderson
Jahri Evans
Dwight Freeney
Antonio Gates
James Harrison
Devin Hester
Torry Holt
Andre Johnson
Leslie O’Neal
Julius Peppers
Reggie Wayne
Patrick Willis
Darren Woodson
the 5 who I predict at this point will make the hall this year
Think they go with Peppers and Gates, think they only go with one and only wide receiver think Andre Johnson has the best chance. Jared Allen gets in as the only eligible non wide receiver in last years final 10. Think Patrick Willis get the final spot as the highest/longest remaining player in the queue.
If my final 5 are correct this will be the first year since 2016 that a defensive back did not make the hall.
If correct I expect Holt, Wayne, O’Neal, Hester and Anderson to be the 5 not elected to make the final 10.
Even though I forgot to mention it previously think Zack Thomas getting in, is part of what will likely help Willis get in this year.
YT: im leaning slightly towards evans over anderson for many many reasons 1 of them being more honors
voters tend to prefer OT over OG (and yea its a stupid view), and if you look at recent elections and compare how long it generally takes OT to get elected compared to OG you see evidence…personally I think Evans is the better OL candidate but willing to bet WAnderson gets in first-would be good to see Evans advancing along the stages of election.
OG ALAN FANECA – first team all decade with multiple 1st team all pro selections was finalist 6x before elected – that’s just wrong
I would take Evans, Wisniewski, and ruben brown way faster than Anderson.
But the hall loves tackles and hates guards. And Anderson does have his phony sacks allowed stat that is clearly responsible for his rise.
Just a heads up to everyone, I changed the URL structure on the site a little bit–might see a few hiccups here and there (I noticed clicking on the Recent Comments in the upper right took me to a weird page). Working to see what else I might need to do to fix anything.
RIP Dick Butkus …. a true Monster of the Midway
RIP Dick Butkus
Would be outlawed in todays game
We are quickly losing many of the greats from 1960s into early 70s include the Packers Chiefs Cowboys Dolphins dynasties from that era
Reminder if Hall sticks to schedule of recent years, we should get announcement of modern semi-finalists (25+ties) a few days before Thanksgiving
and my class of 2024 modern semi-finalist predictions (and LOL …. I never get more than 20 or so right)…
1. CB Eric Allen
2. DE Jared Allen
3. OT Willie Anderson
4. WR Anquan Boldin
5. OG Jari Evens
6. LB London Fletcher
7. DE Dwight Freeney
8. TE Antonio Gates
9. DT James Harrison
10. S Rodney Harrison
11. KR Devin Hester
12. WR Torry Holt
13. WR Andre Johnson
14. LB Robert Mathis
15. S Tim McDonald
16. DE Leslie O’Neil
17. DE/LB Julius Peppers
18. WR Steve Smith
19. RB Fred Taylor
20. WR Hines Ward
21. RB Ricky Watters
22. WR Reggie Wayne
23. DT Vince Wilfork
24. LB Patrick Willis
25. S Darren Woodson
RIP Walt Garrison
Damn, was a big fan of him. He ran with passion and authority and could have started for many teams. Larry Csonka liked him as well and thought he was as big in the SB against the Dolphins as Duane Thomas. The perfect complimentary back.
Paul i usually get between 15-20 of the semifinalists right usually they are they ones that completly come out of nowhere will we have that this year i dont know
Our latest HOF question: https://www.zoneblitz.com/is-harrison-smith-a-hall-of-famer/
I think if one assumes all previous semi-finalists return (removing those whose modern eligibility has ended) and add the most likely 1st ballot players, you should get to 20-22–its the last 3-5 names (plus ties) that can be very random and unpredictable.
agreed paul its those last 3-5 that totally come out of nowhere and very unexpected
Last year there were 28 semi-finalists because of ties, and I think 21 of them return. Two names have now dropped out into the Seniors pool, Albert Lewis and Henry Ellard.
So if we think 21 returning semi-finalists (and perhaps they all don’t make it back?), plus likely just 2 first ballot candidates (Peppers, Gates) that would give us perhaps 2 open slots-not accounting for possible ties,
O’Neal, Bennett, Wisniewski, Webb and Ngata all in with a decent chance of sneaking into the semis.
yea they should all have a shot- but going to be tight fit to get them all in 25 semi-finalists (ties might help)..don’t be surprised if some are left out… (announcement should be on Tues Nov 21st)
For what its worth and noteworthy recognition, the HOVG Class Of 2023 was announced and nine elected including …
John David Crow
Michael Dean Perry
Ray Childress
Coy Bacon
Nick Lowery
Leon Gray
Buck Shaw
Earl Faison
Jeff Van Note
Glad for Shaw especially and H Walker and Steve Tasker missed out on first year eligibility, while many of these guys have HOF cases …
Is it just me or has HOVG run its course-elected those deserving but now trending into average players??
Just you Paul
I see what youre saying Paul, I didnt agree with Bert Jones election at all but most of the players had great careers with HOF cases. Older players like Christensen, Parratt, David, Doll, etc are still missing out but their process is as good as the HOF, I believe and still counts as deserving recognition for forgotten players.
“Just you Paul”
LOL….does not seem to the case.. and I get its just a fun exercise by PFRA, that perhaps too many of its members take a little too serious
If the Pro Football HOF sticks to their usual schedule of announcements (as reflected by dates in 2022), the PFHOF class of 2024 modern semi-finalists (25+tie names) should be released two weeks from today, Tues Nov 21st
Peppers and Gates should be 1st Ballot locks. Brandon Marshall is Ochocinco to me and maybe gets in way down the road. No one else on the list of new players is worthy IMO.
With Belichick at 2-8 he might not get to Don Shula’s record at all. I didn’t realize he was so short of the record. He’s 16 wins short now considering ALL wins and 28 regular season games short. That said , NO WAY he retires when he is fired at the end of the season. I think he lives for getting that record unlike Don Shula (reaching Papa Bear) who hung it up at 65 and had a great QB that kept him motivated. Belichick breaths football like Paul Bear Bryant. The day he quits he’ll probably die soon after. Realizing he’s still short of Shula only emphasizes how great Shula’s coaching career was. Belichick is great too. Andy Reid is great and has little to no chance of attaining the record. Whoever ends up with the record will probably have it for 50 years or more. More games played should make it easier but there aren’t many people with the drive and good fortune of these men.
I’ll disagree slightly tony p. I’d add ngata to those who get in down the road
Yeah I looked him up because I remember him being dominant for a time. I’ll agree maybe down the road.
Curious how many of y’all want to see Belichick get the all time wins record? Would it matter to his legacy? He already has the Super Bowls which carry the most prestige and is considered by many the greatest Head Coach of all time. Don Shula has the record and I don’t see anyone calling him the greatest for it. lol I thought he was for a period of time in the 1970’s. Like Bum Phillip’s said in 1978. He was asked about coaching against Shula, and Phillips said, “He can take his’n and beat your’n and take your’n and beat his’n.” lol That’s high praise from a fellow competitor. Phillips was a wonderfully humble man. Actually he routinely beat Shula but he gave the man his props.
Can’t argue with Belichick’s run of success that seemed much like Nick Saban so impressive. His last Super Bowl may have been his best when Tom Brady wasn’t seeming dominant anymore and he got his defense to rise up in beating a Rams team that looked formidable.
I guess it doesn’t really matter who has the record. If I had my druthers it would have stayed with Papa Bear as a reminder of him being a founder and a great lover of the game. Of course at the time I was happy for Shula. I remember the game versus the Eagles. I think his team tried to carry him off the field.
As you might suspect being a long time fan of the Dolphins I hope Belichick never gets the record. Shula was a man of tremendous integrity. He didn’t like Belichick’s somewhat surly demeanor and his seemingly acceptance to skirt the rules. Shula’s integrity for the game reminds me of Jack Nicklaus another great sports figure.
The real question is will Kraft actually fire him? Trading him to a team for money or draft picks might be wiser but will any team take a 72 year old head coach? Even with his track record?
Kraft knows he will be elected to the HOF soon and may want Belichick as his coach until then, but said he wouldnt keep him just to break Shula’s record. The Patriots could package everything towards a top draft choice or free agent QB next year but we will see if BB stays. I really feel he will because Kraft still has to pay him for 2024 unless he trades him to another team.
I know this sounds crazy but I feel Belichick and Kraft should go back hat-in-hand and personally ask Brady to unretire. They could get rid of O’Brien and let McDaniels work with him again. The offensive line has been terrible for Belichick this year but Brady’s skills and quick release could offset that. Then the Patriots could go for a great receiver in the draft and free agency. With only 28 wins towards Shula’s all-time record, even at 46 or 47 years of age … Tom Brady could make it happen …
Thanks to the mess that is Thursday Night Football, Joe Burrow and Mark Andrews are lost for the season. Burrow is tough but I still doubt he will make it beyond 7-8 seasons and Andrews lost his chance at a possible 1000 yard season as a TE.
If player safety is supposed to be the name of the current game, when will we all see the end of TNF?
A pure, greedy package. If teams have to play that night, let them get a bye afterward but I also feel teams shouldnt get bye weeks till after week 12.
BB is only 16 wins short with 331 to Shula’s 347 if you count Playoff victories which I think is the record to have. If the Patriots only win another game or two it’s hard to see BB surviving in New England . Kraft may think the record is unrealistic with what he’s seen the last couple years and not have the patients along with the media pressure for them to win. You know it’s the do something even if it’s a wrong mentality. lol He might have said he was sticking with BB in the past but I don’t see that as too important. Kraft is getting pretty old. He wants to win now and it might be time to part ways.
Thursday night football has always sucked to me.
Brian
I’d prefer instead to see two teams coming off a bye on TNF. It would give both teams approx 10-11 days between two consecutive games, rather than just 4 days off then a 17 day gap. It’s the 4 day gap that’s the problem.
Youre right TonyP and BoKnow34 …
I still feel Belichick wants the regular season record as well, which would never get broken once he gets it. Mac Jones has to start thinking about his next team or face being a career backup, which is hard to believe after a good rookie season.
With Burrow out and the Bills struggling, Tua and the Dolphins could be groomed for success but even with KC struggling with middling receivers they are still better than the Dolphins, who cant beat a top team just yet. If the Dolphins can keep their skill positions healthy, we will see what happens though the Ravens have the defense to stop them. Can Jax recover from that beatdown against SF and get better? I also feel the Texans could get into the playoffs as well if they get on a winning streak …
I still feel Buffalo could make the playoffs but they need to bury the Jets, so Rodgers wont try to come back this year. What a potential story though …
Kansas City’s defense is becoming a good story. What about my Texans with Stroud? That said, I like the SB winner to come from the NFC this year. My pre-season pick was the 49ers. I agree the regular season record would never be beat.
I’ve got a question to ponder. Who was the best player – head coach of all time? Was it Tom Landry?
Its close between Noll, Landry and Shula. Overrall, Noll might of been slightly behind as a player but equal as a coach to Landry but both Noll and Landry were better players than Shula but slightly behind as coaches, though others disagree.
Curley Lambeau and George Halas are in the discussion as well but Halas had to play … he owned the team.
Ditka was the best player to ever be a winner as a coach. But its even to me between Noll and Landry. People dont realize that Noll played both ways and Landry could punt while scoring 6 defensive TDs!
Sorry — Landry had five defensive TDs, with another as a runner.
Bud Grant may have been, if he hadn’t gone to the CFL when the Eagles refused to pay him what he wanted (I’d say original diva WR, but he was pretty low key overall). Then he decided to get into coaching rather than playing pretty young.
Landry had 32 interceptions in 69 starts. In his day players didn’t get paid much so coaching was enticing to them. I think Dan Reeves, Norm Van Brocklin, Jim Lee Howell and Joe Schmidt deserve a mention as well. Reeves could be in the HOF one day, kind of on the bubble.
USC’s Caleb Williams reminds me of a combination of Patrick Mahomes and Fran Tarkington. He should be the number one pick. The QB’s coming into the NFL will have a big impact.
I actually have questions as to whether he’s mentally tough enough plus has too many TOs.
UPDATE-2024 modern finalists reveal is Tues Nov 28th (not tomorrow-which had been timing in recent years)–info from a voter
Way too much nitpicking on williams paul
I’m surprised they changed the date they always release it the week of Thanksgiving I wonder why they changed it
Caleb Williams had a poor OL and a worse D this year. Everything was on his shoulders and he was totally bought into SC returning to glory. I would think this year feels like a waste. He wasn’t going to improve much individually on last year’s Heisman campaign. He is sturdy and built to last. Only 5 int’s under lots of duress with 30 passing TD’s. I think he will be better than Jalen Hurts coming into the NFL and he’s turned out pretty good.
This next wave of big time QB talent following Deshaun Watson, Pat Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert is going to add even more juice to a very competitive League. This kind of talent used to be generational but is happening with more frequency. Next starting with CJ Stroud and soon Caleb Williams, Bo Nix, Michael Penix and Jayden Daniels. I would add the Utes Cam Rising to the list who missed the entire season with a knee. QB’s are so far ahead of what they used to be when they get to the NFL. A lot more fun to watch.
Still as I say that, has anyone noticed that as much as the NFL tries to favor Offense , Defense is getting more dominant with lower scoring? They can’t like that. LOL I don’t mind. :)
Happy Thanksgiving!!
I know I sound like I should be on the NFL payroll. Haha
We shall see – every draft brings wave of excitement and anticipation over top QBs to draft – most draft years at least 1/2 flame out within their first four years in league. But the next draft folks overate too many and it happens again…….and again
DaRon Bland just returned his 5th INT for a TD this year. He is far from HOF but I will say he is setting himself up for an historic year and start to a career. They have games left too. Maybe 10 years from now we will get a better feeling if he is one or not. I know it’s a pass happy era but defenders can barely touch a WR nowadays. Amazing thus far.
Good call on Bland, Brad. He keeps having passes come his way, does that mean Stephon Gillmore is shutting down receivers on his side? I felt if Gillmore had another All-Pro season, he would have a great shot for the HOF but we will see what happens beyond this season. Its doubtful the Cowboys will keep all three once Diggs returns but who knows? If Gillmore continues to play well, I would keep him and keep all three on the field because Bland is still inexpensive but QBs will have to learn not to keep throwing his way. Diggs will have to prove he is the same corner he was in 2021 but we will see …
Reminder that 2024 modern semifinalists will be announced Tuesday – Nov 28
I was thinking of who Jalen Hurts reminds me of yesterday while watching him. Naturally Philly great Donovan McNabb came to mind. Also Steve McNair . Looking at the stats McNabb compares favorably or above Troy Aikman in everything but Super Bowls. It would be hard to imagine him not making the Hall Of Fame soon.
Hurts might end up the best of the three? IMO his success is more from his hard work than natural talent like the other two.
2024 semifinalists announced on NFL network at 905a tomorrow
Thanks for the info paul
Really weak semi-finalists group this year. Almost like the voters punted knowing that the final 10 or so were set. Wild that so many good (not great) RBs made the list. Especially with several deserving defenders, especially Kevin Williams, Leslie O’Neal, and Cornelius Bennett, that can’t get pushed forward. Also OL was completely ignored. Hopefully good news for Jahri Evans who I now think should be considered a favorite to make the top 15.
Here’s the post with the Semi-Finalist announcement: https://www.zoneblitz.com/pro-football-hall-of-fame-announces-semifinalists-for-class-of-2024/