I spent some time looking back at the history of Zoneblitz the last couple of days, partly just out of curiosity and partly because I haven’t looked at the details in quite some time. Looking back at our domain registrar, it shows our ownership date for Zoneblitz.com as 5/30/2007 — but I know we’ve owned the domain since longer than that, as I remember the very first iteration of the site (a colossal failure) back in probably 2001 or so.
The oldest post in this iteration of Zoneblitz dates back to February 29th, 2008, a leap year post celebrating the start of the new (football) year — a post that, according to our Google Analytics (launched in October of 2008) likely just got it’s first visit in the last 14 years today. We stumbled into writing about the Hall of Fame later in 2008 as well. I thought I had written a much more scathing post about Randall McDaniel not making it, but apparently it was just our first ever predictions post. And while we didn’t think anything of it, come January and the announcement of who made the cut, we saw our first spike in traffic — 5,400 total pageviews, almost 3,600 on that single post. In August, with the actual induction, it spiked again. And it began an annual tradition.
Super Bowl weekend in 2010 saw our biggest spike in traffic ever for the site — over 15,000 visitors to the site in a single month. Unfortunately, with the proliferation of sites actually writing about the Hall of Fame election process, we’ve never really neared that peak again. In 2011 the spike was just over 10k, and we’ve not crossed that mark again. Fortunately, by then, we already had a loyal group of commenters. Many of you are still here commenting today, and we can’t thank you enough for that.
With the increase in content surrounding the Hall of Fame has come a lot more complexity as they’ve changed the process. The addition of coaches and contributors, the 100th Anniversary Class … you guys are awesome at keeping up with it. Unfortunately Andy and I have been less on top of it in recent years. Special thanks to Paul, who for the last couple of years has been writing most of the Hall of Fame posts (save the occasional player specific post) — and also an apology to him, as I dropped the ball on his first post for the 2023 class. By the time I got it into draft format, the process had moved forward, and I wasn’t sure that a lot of what was written was still accurate. And I wasn’t sure how to revise it.
This isn’t intended to be a goodbye post, or anything like that. While Andy and I haven’t written some of our regular posts this year due to lack of time and honestly lack of audience, we have no intentions of shutting the site down anytime soon, despite the fact that the basically makes almost no revenue. We still enjoy writing about football and still enjoy reading your guy’s comments and occasionally offering our opinions on guys, as uninformed as it may be at times.
So, with all that — let’s look forward to the 2023 Pro Football Hall of Fame Class!
Seniors:
The Seniors category has already been narrowed to its final list, with Chuck Howley, Joe Klecko and Ken Riley being named on August 17th as the three former players that will advance to the final voting in early 2023. Other finalists considered included Ken Anderson, Maxie Baughan, Randy Gradishar, Cecil Isbell, Bob Kuechenberg, Eddie Meador, Tommy Nobis, Sterling Sharpe and Everson Walls, after being narrowed from a list of 127 players whose careers ended no later than the 1997 season. Gradishar, Kuechenberg and Sharpe made it from the initial cut from 12 to 6 players, and presumably have the edge in being considered for the 2024 class.
Coaches/Contributors:
Former St. Louis Cardinals & San Diego Chargers head coach Don Coryell was selected from a list of 12 finalists to be considered for enshrinement with the Class of 2023. The other 11 finalists included Roone Arledge, Mike Holmgren, Frank “Bucko” Kilroy, Robert Kraft, Art Modell, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, Art Rooney Jr., Mike Shanahan, Clark Shaughnessy and John Wooten. There were three reduction votes taken in this category, with Coryell, Holmgren, Kraft and Wooten surviving to the final round, and Kilroy, Parker, Reeves and Shaughnessy being eliminated before that.
My personal take:
As mentioned earlier, I’ve been somewhat out of the loop on the process as it’s changed this year. I remember seeing the announcement that three senior candidates and one coach/contributor candidate would be considered, along with the standard five modern era finalists, but I hadn’t really looked at the lists enough to weigh in. Pretty sure I’ve always been a fan of separating out the coaches/contributors from the players, as I didn’t like seeing owners (some still active) precluding deserving players from getting their chance … but seeing the finalists, I’m left … a bit underwhelmed?
Coryell’s name has been coming up for years. I understand that he was the architect of an offense that significantly changed the game — and with a 114-89-1 record, he was a solid head coach. But his 3-6 playoff record and zero Super Bowl appearances are legitimate arguments against his credentials. For the players, I can’t speak much to Howley & Riley, as both played before I was born. Even Klecko’s career came before I paid significant attention to more than the Vikings, but from what I remember of him, he always struck me as Hall of Very Good, rather than Hall of Fame.
In the end, I do worry a bit that the expansion of the seniors list, if it continues in this vein for a significant period of time, may somewhat erode the specialness of the class of players enshrined in bronze — especially as the voters seem less and less likely to actually vote no on the final slate of players making it to the last round of voting.
Modern Era Candidates:
The list of Modern Era candidates will be cut to 25 semifinalists next month, before being reduced to 15 finalists in early January. From there the list will be cut to 10, then a final five that will be considered for the Yes/No vote alongside Howley, Klecko, Riley and Coryell.
Current Candidates (bolded players were finalists in 2022; underlined players are first year eligible):
QB: Randall Cunningham, Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Dave Krieg, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair.
RB: Shaun Alexander, Mike Alstott (FB), Tiki Barber, Larry Centers (FB), Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn, Eddie George, Priest Holmes, Steven Jackson, Chris Johnson, Vonta Leach (FB), Jamal Lewis, Lorenzo Neal (FB), Eric Metcalf (also WR/PR/KR), Fred Taylor, Ricky Watters, Brian Westbrook.
WR: Anquan Boldin, Troy Brown (also PR/KR), Donald Driver, Henry Ellard (also PR), Irving Fryar, Devin Hester (also PR/KR), Torry Holt, Joe Horn, Chad Johnson, Andre Johnson, Derrick Mason, Muhsin Muhammad, Andre Rison, Jimmy Smith, Rod Smith, Steve Smith Sr., Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker, Roddy White.
TE: Dallas Clark, Ben Coates, Wesley Walls.
OL: Willie Anderson (T), Matt Birk (C), Lomas Brown (T), Ruben Brown (G), Jahri Evans (G), D’Brickashaw Ferguson (T), Kevin Glover (C/G), Jordan Gross (T), Olin Kreutz (C), Nick Mangold (C), Logan Mankins (G), Tom Nalen (C), Nate Newton (G/T), Jeff Saturday (C), Mark Schlereth (G/C), Chris Snee (G), Joe Thomas (T), Brian Waters (G), Richmond Webb (T), Erik Williams (T), Steve Wisniewski (G).
DL: John Abraham (DE, also LB), Jared Allen (DE), Dwight Freeney (DE), La’Roi Glover (DT/NT), Casey Hampton (DT/NT), Robert Mathis (DE), Leslie O’Neal (DE), Simeon Rice (DE), Clyde Simmons (DE/DT), Justin Smith (DE), Neil Smith (DE), Justin Tuck (DE), Vince Wilfork (DT/NT), Kevin Williams (DT/DE).
LB: Jessie Armstead, Cornelius Bennett, NaVorro Bowman, Lance Briggs, Chad Brown, Tedy Bruschi, James Farrior, London Fletcher, James Harrison, Seth Joyner, Willie McGinest (also DE), Takeo Spikes, Pat Swilling (also DE), Zach Thomas, DeMarcus Ware, Patrick Willis, Al Wilson.
DB: Eric Allen (CB), Ronde Barber (CB/S), Dre’ Bly (CB), Kam Chancellor (S), Nick Collins (S), Antonio Cromartie (CB), Merton Hanks (S), Rodney Harrison (S), Albert Lewis (CB), Terry McDaniel (CB), Tim McDonald (S), Darrelle Revis (CB), Allen Rossum (CB), Asante Samuel (CB), Bob Sanders (S), Charles Tillman (CB), Troy Vincent (CB), Adrian Wilson (S), Darren Woodson (S).
ST: Gary Anderson (K), Jason Elam (K), Jeff Feagles (P), Jason Hanson (K), John Kasay, (K), Sean Landeta (P), Shane Lechler (P), Ryan Longwell (K), Pat McAfee (P), Matt Turk (P), Josh Cribbs (KR/PR also WR), Brian Mitchell (KR/PR also RB).
My personal take:
Easy to see the 10 finalists not making the cut last year get in. I’ll update when I am able to finally track down the final five that didn’t make the cut, as I would guess at least four of them have a leg up on making the final five this year. The one first year player I see making the jump into the final five would be Joe Thomas, despite it often not being easy for an OL to make that leap (although easier for LT than for an interior lineman).
Dwight Freeney and Darelle Revis also seem to be logical choices as first year players to make it into the final 15. I am less sure about that final spot, but could see a veteran that is nearing in on the end of the modern era road like Leslie O’Neal making the jump, or possibly someone like Kevin Williams, who has the profile despite being a lesser known player.
For my final five, at least for now, I will go with:
-
- Joe Thomas
- DeMarcus Ware
- Jared Allen
- Torry Holt
- Reggie Wayne
Wayne & Holt can clear the logjam at WR. I suspect that there’s a good chance only one would make it, but both are deserving and have been on the list for a while. Could also see someone like Barber or even Revis making it over Allen or Ware, especially since many may consider them to be similar in position, since Ware mostly was a pass rusher from the LB position. But this would be a slate I would feel pretty solid about, even with my feelings about the Senior/Contributor finalists.
So what say you Zoneblitz Nation? I know you’ve been naming lists in the previous post, but let’s get official guesses in here for Final 15 (even Final 25 if you want) and the Final 5!
And thanks for sticking with us over the years!
Thanks, Tony, Anthony and Andy. A great site, which I thought still made revenue. I try to endorse this site on others including the PFRA and feel honored to comment with the most informed football fans and historians on the internet.
Class Of 2023 Wishlist
D Woodson
Z Thomas
Wisniewski
Nalen
A Lewis … Hoping some seniors make progress
Class Of 2023 Predictions
J Thomas
Z Thomas
Barber
J Allen
Ware
Howley
Riley
Klecko
Sorry, Ronde not Tiki Barber
It will be interesting to see if Coryell, Howley, Riley and Klecko all get elected but it wouldn’t surprise me if someone missed the cut.
I don’t think Freeney and Revis will go in first ballot like Joe Thomas but I wouldnt be surprised if Willis or another receiver like Johnson or Holt get voted in.
Five in final 10 who did not make cut for class of 2022 were Ware ZThomas Hester AJohnson Barber
I know I was here back in 2008. LOL I was telling Tony he needed to make a separate heading for the Hall Of Fame since so many of us wanted to write about it. And I remember something about a t-shirt. I’m still waiting for my t-shirt Tony. Haha
In 2008 I was so disappointed Emmitt Thomas was elected to HOF and not his teammate Johnny Robinson. Than every year he didn’t make it, it was like what we they thinking? It was so frustration. I know one of the sites main contributors It took way too long for Johnny and Chuck Howley to make it.
Sometimes I’ve gone on hiatus for a few months but I always come back to ZoneBlitz. Great website for me to bloviate about old football. I love talking about Running Backs. The late 1970’s – the mid 1980’s was the best group IMO as the game was changing thanks to Bill Walsh’s West Coast Offense errrr and that darn K-Gun.
I like your personal take Tony.
This is my final 25
QB: Donovan McNabb
RB: Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Corey Dillon
WR: Andre Johnson, Hines Ward,
TE: Ben Coates
OL: Joe Thomas (T), Brian Waters (G), Richmond Webb (T), Steve Wisniewski (G).
DL: John Abraham (DE, also LB), Jared Allen (DE), Leslie O’Neal (DE), Simeon Rice (DE), Neil Smith (DE), Kevin Williams (DT/DE).
LB: Cornelius Bennett, James Harrison, Zach Thomas, DeMarcus Ware
DB: Eric Allen (CB), Ronde Barber (CB/S), Darrelle Revis (CB), Darren Woodson (S).
ST:
My predications are for JThomas and Revis (both solid first ballot selections), Ware and ZThomas (best deserving returning 2022 final 10) and AJohnson (as seems voters view him as step to open WR logjam), Coryell (more for innovator than career W/L record), Howley Klecko Riley (as voters pushed for three senior slots so not going to turn around and not elect all three-even though Riley is weak choice)
And thanks for new topic thread!!
Opps forgot other steps:
2023 Final 25
CB Eric Allen
DE Jared Allen
OT Willie Anderson
RB Shaun Alexander
DB Ronde Barber
DE Dwight Freeney
RB Eddie George
KR Devin Hester
WR Torry Holt
WR Andre Johnson
C Nick Mangold
G Logan Mankins
CB Darrelle Revis
DE Simeon Rice
WR Steve Smith
RB Fred Taylor
OT Joe Thomas
LB Zach Thomas
WR Hines Ward
LB Demarcus Ware
RB Ricky Watters
WR Reggie Wayne
LB Patrick Willis
DT Vince Wilfork
S Darren Woodson
2023 Final 15
DE Jared Allen*
OT Willie Anderson*
DB Ronde Barber*22F10
DE Dwight Freeney 1n
KR Devin Hester*22F10
WR Torry Holt*
WR Andre Johnson*22F10
CB Darrelle Revis 2n
RB Fred Taylor 3n
OT Joe Thomas 4n
LB Zach Thomas*22F10
LB Demarcus Ware* 22F10
WR Reggie Wayne*
DT Vince Wilfork 5n
LB Patrick Willis*
n=new, * = 2022 finalist, 22F10 = 2022 final 10
Based on the 2022 Final 10 list from Paul–I suspect Andre Johnson makes it over Holt & Wayne–not sure I think it’s fair, but I don’t see the committee jumping them over a 2022 finalist.
I still think Ware makes it, and will give the edge to Zach Thomas over Jared Allen, although I was never much of a Zach Thomas guy. I’ll give the other spot to Ronde Barber since he was in the final 10 as well–he’s a guy that I was surprised to see make it that far, as I didn’t think his career was that prolific–although he did play a long time, and had more All-Pro appearances than I expected him to have. I do think there’s a chance that Revis could jump over him, just due to his reputation and name recognition, with the whole “Revis Island” bit.
I’m going to say that Hester doesn’t make it through, though–still probably a Final 10, but look how long it took to get a punter through the process…I’m shocked that Hester made the final 10, actually, despite fully recognizing how much of a game changer he could be.
So my revised guess:
WR Andre Johnson
OT Joe Thomas
LB Demarcus Ware
LB Zach Thomas
DB Ronde Barber
Unless Matt Ryan can find a way to finish up the season with the Colts or join another team, this could be his final year because he is now replaced as QB in Indy …
When they hit the ballot, Rivers and Ryan will force voters to re-consider how to evaluate the post 2000 QBs who are putting up huge passing stats in this era (usually been a strong factor for QB elections) but lack SB wins or multiple MVP/all pro selections.
That won’t be the factor for Brees, BenR, Brady and Rodgers who will all walk through door in Canton.
And from 2025-2029(2030) all these, plus Eli will hit the ballot.
Plus Eli with 2x SB MVPs over the Patriot dynasty with coach GOAT and QB GOAT has an even more unique resume that will also “challenge” voters.
I think Phillip Rivers makes it but the wait will be lengthy but he should go in as a modern player. I didn’t have Matt Ryan in anyway. Real decent HOVG QB. Some players are dependent more on the eye test and some on career accolades. I don’t think Ryan quite passes either one. He’ll be a memorable as the best Atlanta QB far ahead of Steve Bartkowski and Chris Chandler.
I agree with you Paul about the inflated QB stats today not necessarily being the HOF indicator it was in the past. The same goes for the WR position. I always bring up Charlie Joiner someone who got in more on accumulation of stats from playing so long than looking like a HOF player to me. Was he a very good WR, yes but he doesn’t deserve to be in the HOF more than Harold Jackson IMO. The difference is Joiner played WR2 with Dan Fouts as his QB and Don Coryell as his HC. Jackson’s talent was recognized immediately but most of his prime years were wasted playing for an anemic Ram’s passing game. Despite that he still was a PBer and an All Decade WR. I’m not saying Jackson is Paul Warfield but he deserves better from the HOF voters.
Hard to believe WR Harold Jackson was a 12th Round Draft pick. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2cgIaouLqQ
This is my final 10 for PFHOF.
OL Joe Thomas
LB Demarcus Ware
DB Ronde Barber
LB Zach Thomas
WR Andre Johnson
DE Jared Allen
LB Patrick Willis
DL Vince Wilfork
DB Darrelle Revis
DB Eric Allen
Pretty good list but not so sure Allen makes that leap (and won’t be 3 CB in final 10), plus Hester made final 10 for class of 2022 and I think he gets there again-plus has real shot at election.
My modern top 10 list of most deserving Senior players for HOF.
Seniors
Harold Jackson
Bob Kuechenberg
Isiah Robertson
Bill Bergey
Harvey Martin
Larry Brooks
Randy Gradishar
Lester Hayes
Roger Craig
Gary Clark
Steve McMichael
Top 11 lol
I’m just hoping Eric Allen gets consideration that takes him to the final 10. Devin Hester could go either way; they either elect him or move on from him. I don’t think he stays the same.
It’s only Hesters 2nd year on ballot, no rush to elect or more on as many players wait several years in final 15 or even final 10
It’s only Hesters 2nd year on ballot, no rush to elect or move on as many players wait several years in final 15 or even final 10; once a player gets that far (especially 1st year on ballot), they are set to be elected in following 3-4 years-could be as soon as 2023 or 2024
Ok. He did really well than. For some reason I think it’s going to be hard to elect a special teams player and he will fall by the wayside quickly. No doubt he was one of the greatest return man if not the best ever so this could be his year if the voters are that high on him. Personally I would put him no matter the percentage he played. I think the HOF should represent the best at every position. Well, not sure about long snapper. lol
Yep no PR or KR has ever been elected (or even made semi finalist list) for Hester to get to final 10 is historical and clearly shows he has voters support, that step so soon is clear indication of enough support to elect him very soon. If voters were more divided on GIS cases he won’t have made final ten in 1st year on ballot.
Yep no PR or KR has ever been elected (or even made semi finalist list) for Hester to get to final 10 is historical and clearly shows he has voters support, that step so soon is clear indication of enough support to elect him very soon. If voters were more divided on his case, he won’t have made final ten in 1st year on ballot. Voters don’t advance a player that far so fast in the process to then simply move on from his case as he was not elected.
Looking at possible future HOF players, its interesting that currently, there are 38 players with 90 or more career TDs, not counting postseason totals. Of those 38 players, 22 are RBs, 13 WRs and 3 TEs.
Out of 38 players, 29 of them are currently in the HOF, with another 4 that are shoo-ins when they’re eligible. That’s 33 out of 38, a pretty good indication of making the HOF ?
Most Career TDs Without Making The HOF
Adrian Peterson — 126
Larry Fitzgerald — 121
Antonio Gates — 116
Shaun Alexander — 112
Frank Gore — 100
Priest Holmes — 94
Marshawn Lynch — 94
Rob Gronkowski — 93
Ricky Watters — 91
Peterson, Fitz, Gates and Gronk are making it as future eligibles but can Alexander, Gore, Holmes, Lynch and Watters reach the pinnacle ?
Alexander, Watters and Holmes might be penalized for playing in an era of great running games with Dillon, George, Taylor and Lewis also part of that group, while Gore and Lynch played during an era that de-emphasized defense and tackling in general.
Gore and Lynch are worthy of the HOF in my opinion, especially counting postseason success but many people believe both backs had too many subpar seasons. Longevity should help these two backs …
RIP Ray Guy. You made me want to be the punter on my recess football team in 4th grade!
“Alexander, Watters and Holmes might be penalized for playing in an era of great running games with Dillon, George, Taylor and Lewis also part of that group, while Gore and Lynch played during an era that de-emphasized defense and tackling in general.”
Just too many RBs from early 2000s with similar careers making it really hard for 49 voters to focus on which ones should be elected.
If I had to guess Taylor, Gore and Lynch all get elected eventually (and AP as first ballot), and then perhaps Watters (and if it was me, I would also elect Alexander) but the others will not make it as having that many RBs from 2000s era seems unrealistic
I agree with your analysis Paul. Your guess might be right but my order of preference by my way of thinking is Tiki Barber, Corey Dillon, Fred Taylor, Shaun Alexander, Marshawn Lynch and Frank Gore.
Barber had more yards from scrimmage than all of them except Gore who played forever and the best yards per carry average. Like Barry Sanders, I wish he had hung around longer especially with how good his Giants team was but it doesn’t diminish his greatness. I think the Barber brothers should be in the HOF. I know some will disagree. :)
Priest Holmes has more All-Pros, more TDs and a SB ring, while being a better running-receiving threat than Fred Taylor. I feel he should get the same injury argument that Terrell Davis and Sterling Sharpe get because like those two players, a terrible injury ended his career abruptly, though like Davis, he tried to hang on …
I should have had Holmes on my list. He’s at the back of the list though. I love Holmes’ talent as a Longhorn and KC fan but I am on the fence if he deserves HOF with his short time for greatness. That said I would certainly be thrilled if he made it. I don’t support Eddie George and if truth be told Gore and Lynch either but I understand if they make it.
Man, the head coaching I see today seems so stupid. It drives me crazy! Take the damn points and don’t go for it on your own 30 yard line!! Analytics is not the way to make decisions IMO.
I had forgotten about Tiki Barber during that era as well and like Paul said, you cant put in everybody but players with over 90 career TDs have a serious case in my view … Holmes had a four year window with KC that was just as good as Davis’s window between 95-98 with Denver and didn’t have Elway as QB …
Tiki is another one of those early 2000s RBs – many cases, hard to separate one from another, Holmes included. If one were to consider and elect Holmes and/or Tiki, then you open floodgate to Jackson, Corey Dillon, Shaun Alexander, George (I am assuming Taylor does eventually get elected as among this group at least he has the highest career rushing yards). The problem 49 voters face is debating all these is not done in a vacuum as they have many other deserving players from other positions and decades-how much time/effort are they expected to spend on one position from one decade/era, at some point they elect a few and move on to other players.
(And I am not including the 2010s RBs in AD, Gore, Lynch who all likely will one day be in the Hall.)
TD short career is very unique, I don’t see Holmes matching those accomplishments, and Sharpe was never elected as modern and although appears to be on path to election as Senior, that’s not a route I would speculate for any other player, including Holmes as its a very uncertain one indeed.
Tiki Barber had a 10 year career with over 10.000 yards rushing and over 5,000 yards receiving. Not many RB’s can say that from his time and before if any?? I actually think his prime was longer than some other great ones. He took a lot of punishment.
It took him a while to get his footing in the NFL. Not too different from OJ Simpson. I bet their are more RB’s in the HOF with worse than 4.7 yards per carry than better. O.J. had the same career average and not many more TD’s. It’s not Barber’s fault the Giants relied on short yardage bruisers to collect TD’s.
I think he has a real great case that’s why I put him number one of the that group .
He may have a case, but certainly looks like to date voters have shown no interest even though he has been eligible since 2011-never even made semi-finalist list. Could be that with exception of one great season-2015 with first team all pro-he was never seen as top 3 back in the league during his career. And again he’s stuck in a queue with several other RBs whose era overlap and not much to make most stand out above the other.
I’d love to see Tiki get in some day but I don’t think he will though I’m hopeful that Ronde will soon (I’m biased – went to UVa when they were there, and played against them in high school). Really impressive achievement with 10K/5K (in only 10 seasons) puts him in rare air and I wonder how many voters are really aware of it. He’s strangely light on honors. I think the way he retired might’ve hurt him, fair or not. He walked away after one of his best years and threw Eli under the bus, saying he’d never win a super bowl (oops). And his criticism of Coughlin wasn’t well-received either – I think Coughlin helped him be a better running back. It isn’t supposed to matter, but I’ve often wondered if those things stick in the mind of voters.
No official notice by PFHOF yet (they never post the timing of their announcements in advance) but if Hall follows 2022 timeline, release of the class of 2023 modern semi-finalists (25) should be next week, Tuesday or Wednesday?
UPDATE look for class of 2023 modern semi-finalists announcement tomorrow (tues Nov 22nd) at 1p
28 Modern-Era Players named as Semifinalists for Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2023
Eric Allen, CB – 1988-1994 Philadelphia Eagles, 1995-97 New Orleans Saints, 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2021-23)
Jared Allen, DE – 2004-07 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-15 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2021-23)
Willie Anderson, T – 1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2021-23)
Ronde Barber, CB/S – 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2018-2023)
Anquan Boldin, WR – 2003-09 Arizona Cardinals, 2010-12 Baltimore Ravens, 2013-15 San Francisco 49ers, 2016 Detroit Lions | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Henry Ellard, WR – 1983-1993 Los Angeles Rams, 1994-98 Washington Redskins, 1998 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
Jahri Evans, G – 2006-2016 New Orleans Saints, 2017 Green Bay Packers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
London Fletcher, LB – 1998-2001 St. Louis Rams, 2002-06 Buffalo Bills, 2007-2013 Washington Redskins | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
Dwight Freeney, DE – 2002-2012 Indianapolis Colts, 2013-14 San Diego Chargers, 2015 Arizona Cardinals, 2016 Atlanta Falcons, 2017 Seattle Seahawks, 2017 Detroit Lions | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
James Harrison, LB – 2002-2012, 2014-17 Pittsburgh Steelers, 2013 Cincinnati Bengals, 2017 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
Rodney Harrison, S – 1994-2002 San Diego Chargers, 2003-08 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2021, 2023)
Devin Hester, PR/KR/WR – 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-15 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Torry Holt, WR – 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars | (Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2015-2023)
Andre Johnson, WR – 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016 Tennessee Titans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Albert Lewis, CB – 1983-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-98 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2013, 2023)
Robert Mathis, DE/LB – 2003-2016 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Darrelle Revis, CB – 2007-2012, 2015-16 New York Jets, 2013 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2014 New England Patriots, 2017 Kansas City Chiefs | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
Steve Smith Sr., WR – 2001-2013 Carolina Panthers, 2014-16 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Fred Taylor, RB – 1998-2008 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2009-2010 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2020-23)
Joe Thomas, T – 2007-2017 Cleveland Browns | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2023)
Zach Thomas, LB – 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2019-2023)
Hines Ward, WR – 1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2017-2023)
DeMarcus Ware, LB/DE – 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-16 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Ricky Watters, RB – 1992-94 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-97 Philadelphia Eagles, 1998-2001 Seattle Seahawks | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020, 2022-23)
Reggie Wayne, WR – 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2020-23)
Vince Wilfork, DT – 2004-2014 New England Patriots, 2015-16 Houston Texans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2022-23)
Patrick Willis, LB – 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2020-23)
Darren Woodson, S – 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2015, 2017, 2019-2023)
Surprised Fletcher made it over DT Williams but the trenches hardly ever get attention.
Pulling for Ellard, Allen or Lewis over some of the receivers but I doubt they make progress.
Watters and Taylor may advance but we will see …
Hi everyone im back after a long absence to deal with some personal stuff the one player im pulling for to make it to the finalist round is Darren Woodson
Looks like Eddie George is the only eligible candidate to have been dropped from the 2022 semi finalists. Rodney Harrison and Albert Lewis make a return.
Lewis and Henry Ellard are in their final year of modern era eligibility.
Bo knows what do you think is hurting eddie george and the hall of fame
Robert:
Most likely a career 3.6 ypc. There’s also quite a few very good RBs from that era cancelling each other out so we’re left with Watters and Taylor for the meantime.
thanks for getting back to me on eddie george i completly agree 100%
will be “quick” turn around in process with final 15 to be announced on Dec 27th so here are my predictions (* =2022 final 15; 22F10=2022 final10; n=new):
DE Jared Allen*
OT Willie Anderson*
DB Ronde Barber*22F10
DE Dwight Freeney 1n
KR Devin Hester*22F10
WR Torry Holt*
WR Andre Johnson*22F10
CB Darrelle Revis 2n
RB Fred Taylor 3n
OT Joe Thomas 4n
LB Zach Thomas*22F10
LB Demarcus Ware* 22F10
WR Reggie Wayne*
DT Vince Wilfork 5n
LB Patrick Willis*
Eddie George was a likeable high profile RB for great Ohio St and Tennessee Titans teams but is not a PFHOF RB in my estimation. He was a reliable bruising runner with a little bit of elusiveness in the Pros who didn’t last 10 years and got stuffed too many times at the line of scrimmage for a lower rushing avg.
So far so good! LOL Down to 15 will be a tougher cut.
This is my final 10 for PFHOF.
OL Joe Thomas
LB Demarcus Ware
DB Ronde Barber
LB Zach Thomas
WR Andre Johnson
DE Jared Allen
LB Patrick Willis
DL Vince Wilfork
DB Darrelle Revis
DB Eric Allen
I don’t expect him to go farther than the semis but I’m really excited to see Henry Ellard in there. Not saying I’m totally sold on him as a HOFer and in fact, once he enters the senior pool he’ll have to join the end of a long line of more deserving guys…but glad to see him get a little consideration. A really good, underrated player for the Rams and even had some outstanding seasons on terrible Washington teams late in his career (with no recognition – can’t believe he never even made a pro bowl in DC) AND despite never playing with a particularly outstanding QB. Great punt returner earlier in his career, too.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Albert Lewis sneaks into the final 15 but would be shocked if he gets elected.
Curious thought about Albert LewisL why didnt his teammate Deron Cherry make it this far when he was in the modern era pool
The main intrigue for this upcoming class is how many defensive players will be elected?
I feel the minimum counting seniors will be six but predicting seven with Thomas at OT being the only offensive player …
Would be nice to see Woodson go in with Howley but I doubt the Cowboys run of recent selection success will continue, though Woodson is the next in line at safety.
I see Joe Thomas and Andre Johnson as the only two likely offensive players in class of 2023-simply don’t see any other WR, RB or OL.
But with five defensive players (Revis,Ware,Riley,Howley, Klecko) plus likely ZThomas, it does seem that AJohnson will make it along with first ballot assured election of Joe.
I’d say that compared to previous years, this year’s semi-finalist list was a bit lower on the scale of surprises, but there a few things that stick out to me:
1) The hall seems to be developing a bit of recency bias, with 11 of the 28 nominees in their 1st or 2nd years of eligibility. I wouldn’t complain if they were all overwhelmingly worthy (like we saw with all of the 1999 and 2000 retirements a number of years ago), but about half of them are heavily borderline candidates in my opinion.
2) So many wide receivers! I am excited to see Henry Ellard get this far in his final modern-era year, but he’s unlikely to have a chance against Andre Johnson, Torry Holt and Reggie Wayne.
3) Ditto for Albert Lewis. Not much of a chance of him getting inducted with Revis and Barber on the ballot.
4) After years of pushing offensive linemen and safeties, it seems like voters are locked in on Willie Anderson and Darren Woodson as the more tenured modern era candidates that they are going to push at their positions. I’m really surprised that the voters haven’t revisited Steve Wisniewski’s case.
5) London Fletcher getting to the semifinalist stage is interesting. Like Fred Taylor, I feel like voters are trying to make up for him being overlooked for post-season awards for most of his career by over-pushing him for a hall of fame induction. While I loved both guys as players and thought they were very underrated, I don’t know how I feel about either player making the hall of fame. It feels like too much of an overcorrection to me.
I’m holding out hope for Ricky Watters and Eric Allen to break through to the finalist stage, as they’re running out of years on the modern ballot. I’m also disappointed that Leslie O’Neal hasn’t been able to get back to the semi-finalist stage, though maybe next year he’ll reappear in his final modern era year.
There is a lot of push by voters for Albert Lewis, he may not get elected but very likely is in final 15 and could be a wild card for election-just saying
BSLO – lots of good comments there and I feel the same about the recency bias. I was really surprised to see Anquan Boldin and Vince Wilfork, for example, make it that far as soon as they became eligible. Given history, they stand a solid chance of being elected as modern candidates. Great players, but I’m pretty lukewarm about their HOF resumes. Kinda surprised to see Robert Mathis in the mix so quickly too (but I also think he was pretty underrated – I actually like him a little better than Freeney who seems likely to make it in soon). Definitely agree on #5 – Fletcher was great, criminally underrated during his career…but not so sure about hall of famer.
I too am really confused about Steve Wisniewski. When he retired, I assumed he’d be in the hall of fame without much trouble. The fact that he only has a few more years of eligibility yet has never been a finalist (and a semi-finalist I think once or twice?) is astonishing.
I think Paul may be right about Lewis – would not be surprised at all if he’s a finalist and although it’s unlikely, it’s possible he could be this year’s version of Sam Mills.
O’Neal, Wisniewski and Webb all deserve better.
Yup Bruce Smith said Webb was the best Tackle he went up against. I agree with much of what BLSO says. Also agree with Jeff on Boldin and Wilfork. I don’t think Wilfork played the NT position better than Curley Culp and look how long he waited. Wilfork needs to wait a long time IMO. I too like Eric Allen and favor Mathis over Freeney. Personally I think they cancel each other like Duper and Clayton but I realize Freeney has inflated accolades that are hard to ignore. But they ignored Johnny Robinson and Chuck Howley for years and years. As far as I’m concerned they can the same for Freeney. LOL
Tom Nalen deserves better too … He was All-Pro twice and should have had more designations but Dermontti Dawson soaked up the accolades before 2000 while Denver was putting Terrell Davis into the HOF. Dawson was great but I felt Nalen was just as good.
Of the top 10 rushers in Broncos history, not counting Elway of course, Nalen blocked for 4 of them and had Clinton Portis not left after just two seasons, Nalen would have blocked for three HOF players in the backfield.
I am beginning to think that TonyP doesnt want Freeney in the HOF … haha
Boldin had a great career and had he been designated as a TE like Gonzalez or Shannon Sharpe he would make the HOF very quickly but being a wide receiver, he may wait awhile.
Still, I admire him because unlike most free agent receivers who switch teams, he played as hard for them as his first team in Arizona and went to SB games with two of them, just missing out on a third with the Niners. Even during his final season with the Lions, he still played well.
For what its worth, though some of these players wont make the HOF …
Hall Of Very Good Class Of 2022
Clay Matthews
Lionel Taylor
Mark Gastineau
Bucko Kilroy
Mark Bavaro
Bert Jones
Matt Blair
Keith Jackson
Surprised Parratt and Christensen havent been voted in yet.
I would put in other QBs before Jones but realize had he not gotten hurt, the team would have done better and stayed in Baltimore, IMO …
which qb’s brian would yo go with instead of bert jones im very very curious
Robert — The Greatest– I like Tommy Thompson and his back-to-back Championships with Philly. They went to three in a row but were beaten in their first game in 1947 to the Cardinals. Thompson also played with one eye.
Red Dunn for the Packers also deserves mention. He helped them win three Championships in a row from 1929-31.
Frank Ryan led the Browns to back-to-back championship games in 64-65, winning in 1964. He also led the NFL in TD passes in 1966.
Joe Theisman started his career very slowly but also went to back-to-back SBs, winning in 1982/83. Had a great year in 1983 but the team ran into a fired up Raider defense in the SB. Played great games overcoming the Cowboys and Cardinals in 1984 to win his last division title. Also could have won his division in 1979 but watched the Cowboys rally to beat the Skins in the final game of their season.
Phil Simms won a SB as MVP and was injured on another team SB championship. Played in a tough stadium and never had major weapons to work with but still complimented his tough defense with many career wins.
Excellent Choices im familar everyone of them except for dunn ill have to look him up and do some research
Yeah, I got carried away on the descriptions. I write too darn much … haha
Some people feel Jim Hart deserves discussion but its a no for me, though close.
He won games in a very tough division but had many bad years as well. Had Coryell stayed, he might have made the HOF.
Ok how about hart for hovg where are you on that
Its a no for me Robert … too many mediocre seasons. He was a turnover machine before Don Coryell turned him around. Once Coryell left the Cards, Hart turned into a pumpkin again. In fairness, he played on hard cement in Busch Stadium for an owner that could care less about winning and dealt with a lot of adversity but throughout his career, he had talent around him, including a great offensive line but due to bad drafting, his team couldnt give him the defense needed to win more.
id put simms theismann thompson and even danny white over jones and jim hart Brian
I like Danny White as well Robert. Plunkett was a winner but not spectacular, which hurts his chances but turned his career around. Stafford went from passer to winner but went back to losing again. Its not his fault but he is running out of time if he wants to stay in the HOF-HOVG debate …
Brian, Very good point on Boldin. Was he ever viewed as the best WR on his Team? His best year in 2005, he didn’t make the PB. That was a great year! He did shine for the Cardinals for a several years but I think he’ll always be thought of as a number 2 WR. Not many of those make the HOF. Yes I agree he had one of the better runs as an older player. He was a very physical WR. Can’t say if he makes HOF but one would think his stats puts him in the conversation. But there are so many good WR’s in the 2000’s. His yards per catch leaves a little to be desired.
As for the media crowning Larry Fitzgerald year after year as the best I probably have a little different take. I don’t like his low yards per catch either. I understand how he was used later in his career. He was smooth and fun to watch and had some of the best hands of all time. He did show he could catch for high average just not consistently. He was always a great TD guy with his size. All said, he doesn’t make 1st ballot HOF in I’m voting so I go a little against the grain I suspect. I know it seems like splitting hairs but
I’ve got Simms as a slight lean in. No on Theismann. He was a HOVG with a touch of greatness for a time but not long enough. Simms was just a hell of a football player in the vain of Jim Kelly but not the pure passer like Kelly. Simms is probably more my heart than head but I admire his toughness. It’s a little different today for QB’s LOL And Jack Lambert thought QB’s should be wearing dresses in Simms day. Haha
Jim Hart reminds me of John Hadl. I sure like those guys but they aren’t HOFers. Roman Gabriel is the one I get stuck on. I just don’t know. Was Joe Namath a better QB? Bert Jones, forget about it. If’s and buts were candy and nuts. lol All that guy did was break my heart as a Dolphins fan.
Hey Brian, what do you think about the current Dolphins Team? Not too bad huh? About damn time. :) I hope they can make the Playoffs. They really needed this Bye week. Hope they finish strong. Oh yeah I’m a Texans fan too. Yuk! I never understood hiring Lovey Smith. Well we have the Astros. :)
No, I don’t think I favor Mr. Freeney for the HOF. Haha I saw Freeney games often. The numbers don’t lie. A DE as quick off the ball and fast as him should be able to get in on more tackles than a 350 lb Refrigerator Perry. LOL Richard Dent a player known for taking plays off blows Freeney’s tackle numbers out of the water. As much natural ability as Freeney had looking at him on film I wonder how many times he was really in top shape. It looks like he ran to the QB but not all over the field. A great player is never truly out of a play. Freeney was a sack specialist, period! If that’s all he brings he needs more than 99 sacks over his first 10 years as a starter. In comparison Richard Dent had 121.5 over his first 10 years as a starter and he was a controversial pick to many. I’d take Dent an 8th round draft pick over Freeney. In my book Freeney and his inflated accolades needs to wait a long long time.
I disagree a little about Plunkett. He was amazing and fun to watch when he was playing good. He threw a really pretty ball and was nifty with his pocket awareness. For a not very mobile guy he had a knack for avoiding the sack. Probably due to so many years of practice with bad New England teams. The problem was he lacked confidence for whatever reason most of his career. He did some pretty amazing feats considering, But I couldn’t in good conscious support him for HOF. But hard not to tell the NFL story without his success with the Raiders. He made that happen. I wouldn’t be upset if a guy like that was put into the HOF. Great story.
Yeah, I was just thinking some of those QBs were at least HOVG over Bert Jones, who was snakebit with injuries but had great talent.
The Dolphins could have a special year but it depends on their defense. I will admit, I am pulling for Tua, who has the weapons to get it done but can the offense continue to run the ball while protecting him?
Buffalo took a huge blow losing Von Miller but if they could go all the way, Josh Allen would be celebrated in New York like Joe Namath.
Are they the team of destiny, or can Mahomes take his team all the way again after falling short the last two years?
Philly and Minn are the stories in the NFC with the Niners hoping to keep their chances Purdy much alive but they hardly win without Jimmy Glass. Can Purdy win at least a playoff game? Can Geno Cappucino get the Seahawks into the playoffs?
Me thinks a younger QB will finally get it done this year and Prescott for Dallas has another good chance if the defense can keep balling.
I really believed the Texans would try to persuade Mayfield into joining and staying with their team but they seem to be tanking for another Alabama QB. Could Mayfield try to compete and take the Rams job from Stafford next year ?
I get queasy thinking about the Bucs and Brady. The Saints GAVE them that game the other night and despite a disappointing year, they could get hot and run the table because all the NFC QBs except for Prescott have little to no experience in the playoffs. Even Cousins has only won one playoff game but maybe he is finally due? Rodgers has a hot young receiver in GB but they will be lucky to get to seven wins … Or not !!
How long do you think freeney needs to wait tony p just curious
100 hundred years Robert. LOL! I don’t want him in the HOF. But realistically I’d say more than 10 years into eligibility.
Yeah protection of Tua is key. This week vs the Chargers will be an important game for their confidence coming off the loss to San Fran. I don’t know anything about their running game and OL. The Defense is decent. I suspect they are a year or two away from being a serious contender. The HC looks like a keeper.
Really good stuff Brian. You didn’t mention the Bengals though. I like Cincy’s chances again to return to the SB. They are getting last year’s swag back and Joe cool is the QB I want in the Playoffs. Buffalo seemed like the clear favorite early on but have looked a little vulnerable as the season has gone on. KC is my team. I hope Mahomes and Kelce can get another one. There Defense is better but the Offense is having more trouble in the red zone lately. I wish they had a little bit of a power running game. Philly looks like the best team top to bottom in the NFC. Dallas’ can be dominant at times. You just never know which Dallas/Dak will show up in the Playoffs. I agree with you on Brady and the Bucs, ugh! . Minnesota has shown resilience but I don’t take them too serious.
FYI, if PFHOF follows 2022 schedule, the official announcement of class of 2023 modern finalists (15) should be on or near Thursday December 29th, with the full 49 member selection committee meeting virtually to conduct the election of 5 moderns, 3 seniors and 1 coach/contributor in mid January (that date is never announced in advance) and announcement of the class of 2023 will be on live on the NFL Honors show, Thursday Feb 9th, 9-11p EST from SB site, Phoenix.
UPDATE: official announcement of class of 2023 modern finalists (15) will be first week in January, at this point I don’t have day/time
RIP Franco Harris. Part of one of the great NFL Dynasties and a HOFamer
RIP Franco Harris
I am shocked because he seemed so healthy when I saw recent clips of him.
As a Cowboys fan, I hated his team but knew they would get up to play us and also knew he deserved more attention from new, younger fans who never saw him play.
As gifted and clutch a big back that has ever played and ran super smart on hard artificial turf fields. He and Csonka might have been the first turf running superstars, though Harris liked to cutback and glide against the grain or backside … who wisely made business decisions to go out of bounds, so he would be ready for postseason success. An underrated receiver also, who should caught more balls but Bradshaw liked to throw farther downfield …
Sorry, Simpson Csonka and Harris might have been the first great artificial turf, RBs …
What are all of your thoughts on Matthew Slater’s HOF candidacy? His 10 Pro Bowls are pretty strong but he is a special teams player and none are in outside of Kickers and Punters. I say I would like Steve Tasker in before him but we can’t always have good things.
RIP Franco Harris. So sad the timing. He was a heck of a RB for a long time starting with Penn State. He got a bad rap for avoiding contact and going out of bounds later in his career. It’s called self preservation and he was pretty nifty. If Franco and Rocky weren’t injured might the Steelers have 5 straight SB wins? I doubt Bronco and Cowboy fans will agree and I tend to agree. I’m curious to know from Cowboy experts, which 70’s Cowboy’s SB winning Team would you rate the best top to bottom?
I don’t think I know who Slater is Brad. That’s on me but also representative of the position he played. I know who Tasker was but there aren’t many like him who get the notoriety. Devin Hester and I remember a really good Returner with the Browns. Did Slater play for the Patriots? Yeah I don’t know. Maybe if I had the NFL package. lol
Sorry Brad, but once Hester is elected, I doubt any other players will get elected except for Vinitiari, Tucker and maybe Lechler … No returners, gunners or tacklers …
how do you know that for sure brian just curious
I hope I am wrong Robert …
Voters showed no interest in electing Tasker – that’s the evidence indicating no other gunners or tacklers are getting in Hall.
Class of 2023 modern Finalists announced on NFL Network 8p on Tues Jan 3rd
JJ Watt announced he is retiring. He will be eligible for the 2028 class. I think he has a solid shot at first ballot being a 3x DPOY. He is a big “what if” in NFL history. He had an amazing first 4-5 seasons then he caught the injury bug. Had he stayed healthy he’d probably have 150+ sacks and well over 200 tackles for loss. He has 300 QB hits, which is insane.
Just like Closers and DH’s in baseball HOF, at some point gunners and return specialists will get in. You just need one to break the seal. Hester will go in as a returner and Slater will go in as a gunner at some point then Vet committees will eventually nominate Tasker, Billy Johnson And Brian Mitchell.
I agree with Brad on JJ Watt on everything except I don’t think he will be a 1st Ballot. I think it will take a year or two like DeMarcus Ware and Jared Allen. Most players don’t demand the urgency of a 1st Ballot. We saw that with Cris Carter and Terrell Owens. Randy Moss’s talent demanded it although for me it was a close call when considering his entire career. No issue though. lol
I always remember Ware playing on the D -Line with Dallas so him being a OLB surprises me. I guess I never realized.
Dante Hall is my favorite Returner with 6 KR TD’s and 6 PR TD’s over an 9 year career. He also played some WR. I’d put the Human Joystick in the HOF. lol
JJ Watt is absolutely a first ballot inductee for me in 2028. The only small chance he doesn’t is if both Aaron Donald and Tom Brady are also in that Class. Even so he’d be my third tick on the ballot.
JJ Watt will certainly be a 1st time HOFamer even if Brady and Donald retire. He was not just a great player but he is over qualified in the “fame” department. Other than QB’s, probably the most recognizable name in NFL.
If it were based upon accolades, Watt would be 1st ballot and probably still will but his injuries will also stay in the back of voters’ minds as well. A lot of players are coming up and it will be interesting seeing who is in the queue by 2028. I dont think Donald or Brady will retire. Brady may go to Miami because Tua Tags is too concussion, injury prone.
I hope I am wrong but I truly feel the Bucs and Packers will make runs in the playoffs this year. These networks love both QBs and yes, I think Rodgers will make it to the dance.
Can a younger QB like Hurts, Prescott, Jones, Purdy or a veteran like Cousins beat Brady or Rodgers to get to the SB? The Vikings need to eliminate the Packers this weekend but we will see. They could still get home-field advantage. Washington wont make it with Wince and it would be cool if the Lions could make it for Goff …
Brian said better what I was eluding to with Watts’ total career maybe being stuck in the minds of voters and of course it will come down to who else is eligible . I’m just having a hard time believing he’ll be done after two games more games. He’s fought so hard against the injuries and now is in peak form again. I guess with the new baby and being financially set he feels like he can move away from playing. He will be missed. Too bad he never really got to play for a winner. With his contract ending with the Cardinals I think he would be in a good position to pick a contending Team. Oh well.
Absolutely in my mind a younger QB like Hurts or Prescott could led their Teams past Brady and Rodgers. I think it’s more the Team’s D holding those great vets in check than Hurts or Prescott not being able to get it done. Brady looks like he’s showing signs of age with his inaccuracy. And Rodgers doesn’t quite have the experience at WR yet though on any given Sunday he can still win a big game. GB is on a little bit of a roll and I would love to see Rodgers in the Playoffs. It won’t be easy though. Prescott’s not that young anymore in year 5. He has the choke factor he needs to get off his shoulders. He certainly has the QB skill. If Hurts gets healthy I’ll be surprised if the Eagles aren’t in the SB.
I would hope Miami would go in a different direction than acquiring Brady. They might do alright if they could somehow acquire Gardner Minshew.
I’m a big Dante Hall fan too Tony P. I wish more special teams players would get in. I understand voters prioritize “every down” type of players first. Gary Anderson is also an interesting one. Retired 2nd all time in scoring, behind HOFer Morten Andersen. I thought Stephen G from the Patriots was on his way to Canton being a scoring machine but fell off hard. Justin Tucker will be perhaps the next kicker in after Adam V.
3x DPOY – Watts is a lock 1st ballot in class of 2028
I remember having discussion about Watt 4 years ago when he again got seriously injured and there was some debate if he was even a HOFer if his career ended. He hasn’t made a PB or had a 10 sack season since but I guess those extra games 45 games played since age 29 makes a big difference. He probably will get 10 sacks this year and maybe even make a PB? I’ve always supported him for HOF.
I would say now 60 -40 he goes in on first ballot. lol I’m coming around to y’all’s way of thinking. He’ll have played 150 games and those 3 DPOY look a lot better than 4 years ago. Maybe you’re right the name “JJ Watt” will make a difference for getting in right away. Still he hasn’t played complete back to back seasons since he turned 26. You wouldn’t expect that kind of struggle from a DE. 1st ballot just cut and dry for me. It doesn’t really matter except to the player I suppose and than not always.
If you can make PB at the position you should be able to be in the HOF. Everything else I tend to take a tougher stance on but I’m with you Brad. I’m not saying they should have a flood of players but they need to get some of those special teamers in the HOF.
Here are some players to consider: Speedy Duncan, Lemar Parrish, Billy Whiteshoes Johnson, Ricky Upchurch, Freddie, Mel Gray, Solomon, Brian Mitchell, Desmond Howard, Jermaine Lewis, Eric Metcalf, Dante Hall, Dave Meggitt, Darren Sproles, Ted Ginn, Josh Cribbs and Devin Hester.
There really aren’t too many that stand out. Most of these players I don’t think have a chance. How Lemar Parrish hasn’t found his way to the HOF is beyond me. If I was electing I’d go Upchurch, Whiteshoes, Gray, Metcalf, Hall, Sproles, Cribbs and Hester.
I believe Gary Anderson should be voted in as well but is denied because of his miss in the 98 NFC Championship.
Sproles was great anytime he had the ball in his hands, replacing two great players in Tomlinson and Bush but wont make it once Hester is elected. Patterson or Cribbs wont either …
I like Garner Minshew as well TonyP … I really thought he would beat Dallas but the Cowboys outmuscled the Eagle receivers for big interceptions. Some team should give him a chance next year, especially if Frank Reich gets a job somewhere. If Brady doesn’t go to Miami, he could either see about playing for Payton in TB or rejoining McDaniels in Vegas.
Carr and Tannehill will be with new teams.
Once Morton Anderson passed Gary Anderson, Gary’s PFHOF chances went down like the Titanic. Morton held career pts record for a decade before Vinatieri (next kicker in PFHOF) passed him, whereas Gary held the record for 3 seasons before being passed, so he hit ballot sitting 2nd to Morton-that killed his chances. I doubt he ever gets in Canton. If he stays healthy, it very likely one day Tucker becomes the next kicker after Vinatieri.
Watts case, interestingly has likely also been helped by a 9.5 sack this season (and also the 16 sack in 2018), his prime from 2012-2015 is why he is getting first ballot into PFHOF, but with all the injuries and missed games he subsequently returned twice (2018, 2022) to play at a high level.
Like kickers and Punters, there simply will never be enough voters support to elect a bunch of KR/PR, Hester surely gets in and perhaps a few more, but voters showed no interest in Tasker so I doubt we see them move on other non scoring ST players. Perhaps the senior committee takes a flyer on him one day but given all the deserving senior candidates I would not hold out much help there. Some voters will always view ST players have having limited impact (snap counts per season, game, career) compared to full time players.
Just like some suggested that after electing Morton and Guy, that voters would finally embrace ST players by electing more, they were wrong, nothing has really changed. Hester is a very special case and will soon be elected, but I would not anticipate a flood of other KR/PR types or ST players.
Maybe Tannehill returns to Miami or Carr. I still think Carr can play at a high level. He needs to get back to making better decisions.
I agree with both of you guys’ comments. I was listing players who could possible should get in but it will take a change of attitude towards ST players. Like Paul suggests it’s unlikely.
I’m curious how much weight what a ST player did playing a regular position should figure in on his election? If you consider that I think Billy Whiteshoes Johnson, Eric Metcalf and Darren Sproles should be given strong consideration. If not I’m only considering Dante Hall as a pure Returner and though spectacular at times he falls quite a bit short Devin Hester. The only ones outside of Hester that I see as having a legitimate shot at the HOF are Billy Whiteshoes Johnson and Eric Metcalf.
I might consider 2/4 Punter Dave Jennings of the Seniors. He played in a lot of important games for the Giants.
Tony im a big jennings fan and i might also consider him also
RIP Art McNally
Though I didn’t support him for the HOF, it was nice for him to have that moment in his life before his passing …
Tomorrow night 1/3 we find out the modern era finalists for the hall of fame
They may postpone the announcement with everyone worried about Hamlin’s condition.
Players get hurt all the time but with a player having to have his heart revived after a cardiac arrest on the field, people had to put a game on the back burner… The game will have to resume however unless they declare it a forfeit for both teams and the NFL probably won’t do that …
Let’s hope he survives without much or any brain damage. The emphasis on safety needs to demand that the NFL do away with the ridiculous TNF package and make it an emphasis for players to wear more and better protective equipment while having more padding like players in the past. Many of these players get too lackadaisical in terms of wearing proper protective gear imo …
PFHOF class of 2023 modern finalists announcement has been postponed, tentatively rescheduled to tomorrow night Jan 4th, 8pm on NFL Network (info provided by a voter).
Yes, my thoughts are with Damar and his family. It looked like a freak injury to me. Maybe he had some sort of congenital spine issue that made him susceptible? Who knows? It’s a contact sport. That said, I could see it happening in many other sports where bodies collide. Those basketball players fall really hard sometimes on the court. Soccer players have collisons.
This is the last thing the NFL wanted to see happen on a business level. There’s already a serious decline in football participation by the youngsters because of the CTE issue and NFL players are retiring early.
I don’t know about about the equipment issue. I think the tackling rules have made the game much safer. It seems like they can only make it so safe before they ruin the game. Maybe they need to widen the field? These are really big, fast men. I know that’s been mentioned before.
Pulling for Woodson, the next safety in line. Nice to see Lewis gets some due. Not too many surprises though.
My prediction from few months ago: 13/15 (missed on Lewis and Woodson, had Wilfork and Taylor)
DE Jared Allen*
OT Willie Anderson*
DB Ronde Barber*22F10
DE Dwight Freeney 1n
KR Devin Hester*22F10
WR Torry Holt*
WR Andre Johnson*22F10
CB Darrelle Revis 2n
RB Fred Taylor 3n
OT Joe Thomas 4n
LB Zach Thomas*22F10
LB Demarcus Ware* 22F10
WR Reggie Wayne*
DT Vince Wilfork 5n
LB Patrick Willis*
Virtual election meeting is Jan 17th, results announced live during NFL Honors show, Thurs Feb 9th, 9-11p EDT on NBC
Here’s the list of survivors. lol
Darrelle Revis, CB: 2007-2012 New York Jets, 2013 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2014 New England Patriots, 2015-2016 New York Jets, 2017 Kansas City Chiefs
Joe Thomas, OT: 2007-2017 Cleveland Browns
Willie Anderson, OT: 1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens
Torry Holt, WR: 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars
Reggie Wayne, WR: 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts
Andre Johnson, WR: 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016 Tennessee Titans
Jared Allen, DE: 2004-2007 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-2015 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers
DeMarcus Ware, LB: 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-2016 Denver Broncos
Dwight Freeney, DE: 2002-2012 Indianapolis Colts, 2013-2014 San Diego Chargers, 2015 Arizona Cardinals, 2016 Atlanta Falcons, 2017 Seattle Seahawks, 2017 Detroit Lions
Albert Lewis, CB: 1983-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-1998 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders
Ronde Barber, DB: 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Devin Hester, PR/KR: 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-2015 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens, 2016 Seattle Seahawks
Zach Thomas, LB: 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys
Patrick Willis, LB: 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers
Darren Woodson, S: 1992-2004 Dallas Cowboys
“Among that group, only Thomas, Revis and Freeney are new entrants. Johnson, Ware and Hester were all first-time finalists last year, but none of them made the cut.”
It appears 3/4 Willie Anderson is well thought of. Does anyone know if 2/7 Richmond Webb has made it onto the preliminary ballot of 94 ? As of 2017 he hadn’t. To me that makes the NFL HOF process look silly. He was a great pass blocking LT for one of the least sacked QB’s. He made the PB seven years in a row more than any Miami player in history. Pretty good for a player who played Guard and preferred that position. Richmond has been class act the whole time even with being snubbed.
A late push for Lewis in his final year of eligibility, much like Sam Mills last year.
Lewis is the wildcard…could very well push ZTHomas to the side…
if folks are interested in doing our annual prediction contest just let me know with post here… If enough interest, I can make then announcement here, set deadline and keep track of ballots….we would just do the 5 moderns… no need to create new post as best to let this tread carry through to the election announcements
Nice to give them the respect but not sure either one is or was HOF great. The accolades aren’t overwhelming. But I won’t be a hypocrite because I think some other lesser profiles deserve HOF like 0/5 Lee Roy Jordan, 1/5 Tommy Nobis, 1/6 Bob Kuechenberg, 0/3 Rod Smith, 0/4 Corey Dillon and 1/5 Bob Baumhower. It’s the eye of the beholder I guess. It appears to me that lately, the past 20 years, the door has been opened for players with less than stellar accolades. I could make a list. :) This would go against some of the players I support but maybe they should have a criteria for acceptance like 5 Pro Bowls to be considered. That doesn’t seem like such a huge number if a player is HOF good. Maybe the selection for a Pro Bowler would be given more serious consideration?
Good idea Paul …
Wishlist Class Of 2023
Woodson
Z Thomas
Lewis
Ware
R Barber
Predictions
J Thomas
Z Thomas
Ware
Allen
R Barber
Would be really crazy to see three Cowboys make this HOF Class including Howley.
With this class being heavy on defensive players it would probably make sense to go ahead and put in Devin Hester for special teams but we will see if they lean toward a receiver … The electors could compromise and do both tackles with Joe Thomas and Anderson. That may help Webb and Wisniewski moving forward.
Woodson, Allen, Hester and Anderson are not getting elected this year…but all are well positioned for future years, especially considering that 2024-2026 elections are ‘weaker” for serious first ballot contenders
strong contenders for first ballot:
2024-1or2: DE Julius Peppers (CAR)-VERY STRONG (has two all decade teams)*, TE Antonio Gates (SD)*-POSSIBLE??? result 3-4 open slots
2025- 1: LB Luke Kuechly (CAR)* – ???, if voters are making Willis wait (with similar resume) will they do same for Kuechly?? result 4 open slots
2026- 2: QB Drew Brees (NO)*-LOCK, WR Larry Fitzgerald (ARZ)*-LOCK result 3 slots
So yea for those 2023 finalists not elected, there is “room” for them in next three elections…10-11 total slots “open”
This is my first post
I’ve been following the Pro Football Hall of Fame for quite a while I’ve never gotten predictions for the classes right the closest I came was in 2021 when i got 4 out of 5 I missed on Calvin Johnson I had Tony Bosseli the other times I’ve been 3 out of 5
Here are two classes I would like to see
Joe Thomas
Darrelle Revis
Dwight Freeney
Demarcus Ware
Zach Thomas
Joe Thomas
Darrelle Revis
Dwight Freeney
Torry Holt
Ronde Barber
Andy, being from Minnesota is there any reason you didn’t include Jared Allen? I know one player on your list I would replace for him. lol
Hopefully, a lot of fans of this site will send in their predictions of the modern Class Of 2023 but am I the only one that doesn’t predict Revis will go in first ballot?
What do you think Rasputin … Can Cowboys Howley, Woodson and Ware get voted in this year?
Paul doesn’t believe so but I am hoping …
My Prediction
1. Revis
2. J. THomas
3. Ware
4. Holt
5. Z. Thomas
OK so we have a contest, if you have not already posted your predictions (so far I have Bill, Brian W, and me), please do so by Jan 16th.
Just the five moderns-winner get to add “the Greatest” to their name here for next year…
No way Woodson gets elected this year…but huge step for him to get in the room to be discussed for the first time..sets him up nicely to be elected in next 3-5 years.
Woodson has until 2028 to be elected as a modern era candidate.
My predictions: Same as Bill.
Revis, Zach and Joe Thomas. Ware and Holt.
This is not a complete list of PFHOF candidates last year as modern, but those with best chances to get on ballot-even if just as semi-finalist-before time runs out and they fall into seniors pool (note: just next five elections). We know Lewis (made final 15) and Ellard were those for 2023 and that Mills made it to election in last year as modern in 2022. But its a mixed bag as Jacoby, Everson Walls, Clay Matthews Jr did not (although Walls quickly appeared as top senior making the list of 12 seniors considered for class of 2023). Sooner one gets into finalist round and have their case presented and debated the better, so looking at this year, Woodson’s move this “early” with 6 years left is very promising for his eventual election.
Never certain as to who will get late buzz later this fall for 2024 (like Lewis this election cycle), but could be O’Neil – although the ballot will likely already be very heavy with pass rushing DE/LB (Freeney, Peppers, Allen?), making his jump into finalist very challenging indeed. Some other names primed for movement into semifinalists and perhaps eventually finalist here include Bennett, SteveW (shocking he has not already), Eric Allen(current seminfinalist)??, Watters (current seminfinalist), LBrown?, Webb??? (another shocking omission to date by voters).
2024 (1999) Tim McDonald, Merton Hanks, Nate Newton, Kevin Glover, Daryl Johnston, Leslie O’Neal
2025 (2000) Andre Rison, Ken Norton Jr., Clyde Simmons, Eddie Murray, Irving Fryar, Bryce Paup, Mark Schlereth (G/C), Ben Coates, Neil Smith, Cornelius Bennett
2026 (2001) Steve Wisniewski, Carnell Lake, Mark Stepnoski, Randall Cunningham, Erik Williams, Eric Allen, Ricky Watters
2027 (2002) Lomas Brown, Herman Moore, Eric Metcalf, Levon Kirkland, Richmond Webb, Hardy Nickerson
2028 (2003) Jessie Armstead, Wesley Walls, Brian Mitchell, Michael Bates, Dana Stubblefield, Larry Centers, Darren Woodson
Well you guys could at least tell I have the wrong Andy! Hahaha Welcome Andy, glad you found this site. :) Just ignore me. lol
It’s pretty well known i’m very anti- Dwight Freeney.
That a good list of who’s coming to the end of modern day. Well you know I have to be picky if you put out a list. Not personal. lol Daryl Moose Johnston might have a chance of making a list but has no chance at the HOF. He only has 21 TD’s a 2 PB’s. I might put in Tom Rathman before Johnston and he’s a little short on years. He has a higher AV with no PB’s and two less years. This is funny, I went to an article of the best FB’s of all time. They have Rathman and Johnston tied at number 7 . They say they are essentially the same player. LOL Nope neither one will ever be a HOFer. Johnston is a pretty good announcer.
If there ever was a blocking FB make the HOF it would be Lorenzo Neal.
https://www.sportscasting.com/the-10-greatest-nfl-fullbacks-of-all-time-2/
Really Johnston was a better FB with a 3.2 per carry avg than Larry Csonka, John Riggins and Jim Taylor. LOL! Some of the people who make up these lists are wacko.
Off topic if Kansas City’s DT Chris Jones stays healthy he should have a good shot at the HOF. i guess Aaron Donald and someone else is beating him out for All Pro. Jones should get it this year!
Back to your list of upcoming last year candidates, I’d say these players have no chance:
2024 (1999) Tim McDonald, Merton Hanks, Kevin Glover, Daryl Johnston
2025 (2000) Ken Norton Jr.,Bryce Paup, Mark Schlereth (G/C)
2026 (2001)
2027 (2002) Levon Kirkland
2028 (2003) Jessie Armstead, Wesley Walls, Brian Mitchell, Michael Bates, Dana Stubblefield, Larry Centers
I didn’t mean to be so hard on Johnston. He was perfect for what the Cowboys needed and great just like Rathman was. There are a lot of players like that who are loved by their fans.
Official prediction:
J. Thomas
Ware
Z. Thomas
Lewis
Revis
Top Ten: Allen, Barber, Holt, Johnson, Willis
Disappointed that I can’t agree with those predicting Holt. I believe he is clearly the best receiver eligible. One of the most underrated players in recent memory. Recently had an exchange with John Turney on his website, and it appears he is softening. That said, I just don’t see how he gets in this year, but I hope I’m very wrong.
Regarding Lewis, Tony Dungy is an elector, and he is an enthusiastic supporter of Lewis. This has convinced me that Lewis makes it, which as a child of the 80s, I strongly support. Just sorry his teammate Deron Cherry didn’t get a similar opportunity.
Neal was a great lead-blocking fullback but wasnt the receiver that Centers, Johnston, or Rathman were. Johnston or Rathman didnt run as well as Alstott, who couldn’t block as well as those two …
I think it is time to discuss Mike Tomlin and the HOF. Hasn’t had a losing record. Ever. Despite not having loaded teams the last 2-3 seasons. He is a Super Bowl winner too. Troy P,Casey Hampton ,James Harrison and others long retired and he is still winning. Hasn’t won the big one in a while but give him a ton of credit. This was suppose to be a “rebuilding” year (6-8 win season most were predicting). He made them a 9-8 team. Kenny Pickett could be the future and should only get better. Harris seems like a solid RB too. Maybe they make the leap next year and make the playoffs. If they do that, he for sure cements his spot for Canton.
Mike Tomlin will make it into the HOF if he ever retires. LOL He has a lot of staying power.
Rathman was a good runner when he got the chance. Moose Johnston was very average carrying the rock. He had good hands and was a great blocker. Alstott was IMO the best running FB since Christian Okoye and William Andrews and Riggins before him. Mike Alstott 3/6 was the whole package so that might get him in one day though not certain. Maybe in his last year as a Modern or as a Senior?
Its unfortunate but I really don’t see a ready path for election of FBs like Rathman, Moose and Alstott. As the position has lost more importance/role, those who played pre 2000s when they were important impact players are fading in the minds of the voters, and during the rise in more focus on TEs and of course even more QBs and WRs with the “big” stats.
Tomlin will make the HOF … Its not like the Steelers would ever fire him but he wasted a lot of prime years with Big Ben. Only one AFC Championship appearance since 2011.
plenty of teams in last decade got caught up in the buzz saw that was Brady and Payton- I don’t blame a great coach like Tomlin for fewer SBs.
Here are two things I want to point out about Torry Holt and Dwight Freeney
Out of all the Wide Receivers on the 1970s 1980s 1990s and 2000s All Decade Team Torry Holt is the only one not in
Out of the First Team Defensive players on the 2000s All Decade Team Dwight Freeney is the only one not in
Yup, I just can’t get aboard on either Freeney or Holt.
It’s really interesting to see Pro Football Reference All Decade Teams – 1970. There are some glaring omissions and other names we talk about that are being passed over. I might have to take a closer look at those again.
They have Jake Scott right where I think he belongs. :) Can’t argue with the QB’s. Lydell Mitchell number 1 is interesting with Franco number 2. No mention of Drew Pearson or Dave Casper. Surprised TE Riley Odom isn’t on the list too. He’s very close to HOF good IMO. George Kunz and Kooch are names that come up who get passed over by the HOF as does Gene Washington and Harold Jackson.
Of course an All Decade doesn’t mean you had a HOF career. I still don’t know why it took Jack Youngblood so long to be a HOFer. I can’t see Ken Riley going in over Lemar Parrish. Lots to chew on here. I’m not sure if PFR is the best representative of the All Decade team or not? I tend to think it’s pretty good because it’s showing up with hindsight.
QB Roger Staubach 1st 1970 1979 125 113 166.2 291.1 2,227.9 15.2 10.7 39.5 220.4 1.9 .1 -1
QB Fran Tarkenton 2nd 1970 1978 120 120 228.4 382.8 2,651.4 17.3 14.7 27.1 111.3 1.3 0 0
RB Lydell Mitchell 1st 1972 1979 109 84 0 0 0 0 0 208.5 814.8 3.8 46.8 397.8 2.1 0 0
RB O.J. Simpson 1st 1970 1979 122 116 .6 1.6 11.0 .1 0 222.3 1,053.9 5.9 17.3 179.9 1.1 0
RB Franco Harris 2nd 1972 1979 111 102 0 .1 0 0 0 251.5 1,070.4 9.0 21.8 163.9 .5 0 0
RB Chuck Foreman 2nd 1973 1979 93 84 0 0 0 0 0 219.0 841.0 7.4 48.0 436.7 3.3 0 0
WR Fred Biletnikoff 1st 1970 1978 124 109 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 43.7 624.6 5.6 0 0 0
WR Harold Jackson 1st 1970 1979 144 137 0 .1 0 0 0 2.4 14.8 0 43.2 772.4 6.1 0 0 0
WR Gene Washington 2nd 1970 1979 126 123 0 .1 0 0 0 .6 3.0 0 37.1 682.8 6.3 0 0 0
WR Cliff Branch 2nd 1972 1979 112 85 0 0 0 0 0 .9 4.9 0 40.0 690.0 6.3 0 0 0
TE Raymond Chester 1st 1970 1979 140 116 0 0 0 0 0 .5 .9 0 32.3 455.4 4.3 0 0 0
TE Bob Tucker 2nd 1970 1979 140 129 0 0 0 0 0 .6 .6 .1 40.7 524.8 2.6 0 0 0
TE Rich Caster 2nd 1970 1979 137 118 0 0 0 0 0 2.2 12.2 0 28.3 498.9 4.2 0 0
T Art Shell 1st 1970 1979 139 139 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T Ron Yary 1st 1970 1979 144 144 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T Rayfield Wright 2nd 1970 1979 128 110 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
T George Kunz 2nd 1970 1978 106 106 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .1 .2 0 0 0 0
G Larry Little 1st 1970 1979 142 139 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G Gene Upshaw 1st 1970 1979 144 144 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
G Bob Kuechenberg 2nd1970 1979 139 127 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Passing Rushing Receiving
Pos Player Tm From To G GS Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Solo Sk Int
G Tom Mack 2nd 1970 1978 128 126 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
C Jim Langer 1st 1970 1979 129 109 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
C Jack Rudnay 2nd 1970 1979 143 136 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
C Len Hauss 2nd 1970 1977 112 112 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
DE Jack Youngblood 1st 1971 1979 130 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11.6 0
DE Carl Eller 1st 1970 1979 141 126 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8.9 .1
DE Jim Marshall 2nd 1970 1979 144 144 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4.5 0
DE L.C. Greenwood 2nd 1970 1979 129 115 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6.6 0
DT Alan Page 1st 1970 1979 144 144 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10.2 .1
DT Joe Greene 1st 1970 1979 138 136 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6.0 .1
DT Curley Culp 2nd 1970 1979 141 135 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5.9 .1
DT Diron Talbert 2nd 1970 1979 140 139 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7.7 0
LB Isiah Robertson 1st 1971 1979 127 118 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.3 2.2
LB Ted Hendricks 1st 1970 1979 144 135 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.9 2.3
LB Jack Ham 1st 1971 1979 126 125 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.4 3.1
LB Bill Bergey 2nd 1970 1979 129 127 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.7 2.4
LB Willie Lanier 2nd 1970 1977 111 108 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .3 2.4
LB Phil Villapiano 2nd 1971 1979 118 117 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.7 1.2
LB Chris Hanburger 2nd 1970 1978 119 118 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.9 1.7
CB Lemar Parrish 1st 1970 1979 132 128 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.8
Passing Rushing Receiving
Pos Player Tm From To G GS Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Solo Sk Int
CB Mel Blount 1st 1970 1979 143 132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .1 4.2
CB Ken Riley 2nd 1970 1979 138 138 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .1 4.0
CB Roger Wehrli 2nd 1970 1979 140 137 0 .1 0 0 0 .4 2.7 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.2
S Jake Scott 1st 1970 1978 126 126 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .1 5.4
S Ken Houston 1st 1970 1979 141 141 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .2 3.6
S Cliff Harris 2nd 1970 1979 141 130 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .3 2.9
S Paul Krause 2nd 1970 1979 144 122 .1
Freeney’s in his first year of eligibility so he’s not doing bad.
I’m in the contest now with:
Ware
Revis
Joe Thomas
Zach Thomas
Andre Johnson
got yours Tony P!
Good call on Chris Jones, TonyP …
Guy is a monster on the interior and would be All-Pro more if not for Donald, plus two SB appearances. If the team would get rid of Clark and get another great pass rusher to team with him, his numbers would be even better.
He will make the HOF if he can stay healthy.
Wild Card Predictions
SF
LA
Buff
Minn
Cincy
TB — Brady aint done yet
My Picks this weekend-
Dallas over Tampa Bay – Dallas is motivated and tired of losing to the Bucs. Brady has slipped from last year. Dak can throw the game away but I don’t think he will. He’ll have a good day passing. The Cowboys should get something out of the ground game against a tough Tampa D. But the back end is where the Bucs can be had. Brady and Mike Evans need a huge game if they are to win. Sorry can’t count on Brady anymore. But if tied at the end he still knows how to win the close ones. lol
San Francisco or Seattle – It could be lower scoring and ugly. I have to go with San Fran’s great Defense. They only lose if their reliable rookie QB Purdy makes a lot of mistakes. if he plays well it could be a blowout. I’d almost bank this one.
Buffalo over Miami – Miami has a shot to keep close for a while if it’s D continues to play well but has slim to none chance with their backup QB. I can’t see Josh Allen ever letting his team lose this one. Bank this one!
Jacksonville over Los Angeles – I like how the Jags play for HC Doug Peterson and them having home field. Their D is playing well. They have been on a roll of 5 straight wins and 6 out of 7. I think Chargers D really misses Bosa. I will say the Chargers QB Justin Herbert has the talent to carry them to a win in a shootout if his WR’s are up to snuff. Close matchup.
New York over Minnesota – Daniel Jones’ seems level headed enough to win his first playoff game. His timely running, Barkley running well to help control the clock and the pressure the Giants will put on Cousins will be the difference IMO. I think the Giants D will show up. Another close one. Little bit of pressure on Mr. Cousins! LOL Many times the natives have talked about running him out of town. Can you imagine as well as he’s played. Fans like to win the big games though.
Cincinnati over Baltimore – If Lamar jackson could return it could be interesting even an upset but the difference is Joe Cool in this one and Cincy has a good D. If Cincy gets by the Ravens they have a good chance at returning to the SB.
Heres my Entry
Jared Allen
Albert Lewis
Darrelle Revis
Joe Thomas
Zach Thomas
got it
I’d like Jared Allen to go in asap but I keep thinking Demarcus Ware has a slightly better case. We’ll see. I don’t know about Albert Lewis. I certainly remember him because of his speed. He seemed like a flashy player but I don’t know if he was a top cover guy for a long time. It’s impressive he was a starter late into his career with the Raiders. Maybe he does deserve HOF.
Lewis’s 11 blocked kicks is impressive. Playing special teams is a feather in his cap.
The Chiefs defense took a major hit when Lewis joined the Raiders in 1994. Montana retired after the defense looked terrible against the Dolphins in the wild card loss.
I know Lewis wanted the money but you would think he would have stayed and helped Montana and the Chiefs win a championship?
Still, a shutdown corner and great special teams player who deserves the HOF.
speaking of Albert Lewis and the Hall of Fame what does everyone think about his teammate deron cherry
I’ve mentioned Cherry here before in other threads in the past. I hope he gets a Seniors nomination one day.
As for Lewis I’d be very happy if he was elected this year rather than fall into the deep pool of Seniors. I think most of us are agreed on 4 of the 5. I just went with a WR for a bit of balance.
Put Lewis in now then start with the WR backlog in 2024 with Woodson and Barber at DB.
The AP All-Pro teams are out and it certainly will help players in the future toward HOF status.
Mahomes, Kelce, Adams and Tyreek Hill benefit but it also helps future cases for center Kelce and Williams in SF. Jones finally made the team as well for the Chiefs and Chubb for Cleveland finally got some recognition, though he is 2nd team.
I still don’t understand why three receivers get elected but only one running back, which might have helped Derrick Henry make either team? Jacobs finally reached his potential in Vegas but he will probably be with another team next year unless the Raiders get rid of Carr and his 40 million pricetag.
OT Sewell in Detroit is fun to watch but just missed out. Josh Allen in Buffalo is deserving as well but has too many red-zone mishaps but is their best runner, yet Hurts had a great year.
I don’t think he needed the help at this point with his Canton resume, but Zack Martin with 6 first team all pro (plus 2x second team) in 9 year career is impressive accomplishment for any player/position
Every time I see Zach Martin mentioned it reminds me of the Cowboys fans on draft day chanting “We want Johnny” (Manziel), when Dallas were on the clock.
Martin, Nelson and Trent Williams are all going to Canton. It’s looking good too for Jason Kelce to someday join his brother, who will get in before him.
Martin should be first ballot for sure but we all know how guards are normally treated by the voters. Lane Johnson is enhancing his case as well. Another great year from Wagner in LA, who might be a first ballot selection.
If the Eagles were to win the SB, it could help Suh make the Hall as well since he already has a ring from TB. Other than Sauce Gardner, I wonder if any other rookies got All-Pro votes ?
It’s hard to watch the Jacksonville trainwreck that’s going on. 27-0 and not halftime yet. QB Lawrence looks as bad as Brock Purdy looked good for the 49ers.
Tale of two halves TonyP … Chargers are rattled and need at least a FG these last six minutes to win …
The Chargers blow it while Purdy is looking pretty good for SF … He throws like Marc Bulger when I watch him.
Like I said Jags or Chargers. LMBO!! Purdy has good instincts in the pocket. Crazy the amount of poise for being so young. The game isn’t too fast for him. It’s doesn’t hurt to have the best set of Offensive weapons I’ve ever seen. lol I don’t think my Chiefs can beat that Team.
NFL football today is amazing the way teams can come from behind. QB play is so much better at 1st 2nd and 3rd string. Also the short passing schemes allow a Team to get into a rhythm to change momentum.
Thompson for Miami had his chance to pull the upset but couldn’t execute on third down, couldnt get the plays called quick enough which burned their timeouts and took to long to get rid of the ball … He will have to do much better on his release to stay with the team as they may go for Brady again next year.
Miami’s Defense stepped up enough to win the game. Like you said Thompson and his receivers couldn’t get it done. I still think Derek Carr is a good fit.
I’m 4-0 on my picks so far lol with the Giants beating the Vikings. I believe in Daniel Jones and Barkley now that he’s healthy. They had some WR’s step up too. That said I wouldn’t put money on them versus the Eagles if Hurts is right. Still they have a good shot if they don’t turn over the ball plus we’ve seem how tough it is to beat Division rival.
I’m intrigued to see how the Dallas Cowboys will play in the Playoffs. They have the firepower to play so good. They should beat the Bucs. Then they would play the 49ers. That’s the only team I don’t know if they can beat.
Cincy is in a dogfight 17-17. This is the one I didn’t know if they could get past.
We will see what Brady does in primetime. A nice script to see if Brady and the Bucs face the Niners …
The Bengals got screwed. Due to a game that couldnt get finished at another date, they have to go to Buffalo and then possibly travel to KC who they had beaten this year. Can they persevere?
Cousins wont make the HOF but he sure will keep making a lot of money. Spend money on their defense …
Philly should handle the Giant receivers but can Hurts continue to play great football?
KC cant overlook the Jags but needs to take advantage of home field advantage they could have lost had the Buffalo-Cincy game been completed.
I think the week off will help KC versus the Jags. Jags are dangerous because their D can shut down an Offense. KC makes me nervous because they let teams back into the game. Hopefully the KC’s D will keep up the intensity with Chris Jones being a beast and it sounds like Frank Clark will be able to pressure the QB after a slight injury.
It’s unfortunate Cincy didn’t have a chance to earn the home game. Now they have injury problems after that tough game with the Ravens. Their D will have to step up versus Buffalo.
Cousins has already made a lot of money betting on himself. I can’t see the Vikings moving on from him yet.
It will be interesting to see who the Houston Texans draft at QB. I would assume the first pick will be a QB. IMO Stroud is another OSU QB who won’t translate to NFL greatness. It seems like their QB don’t keep up the work or have the mental part because they are usually stud athletes with big arms. They didn’t have a place for Joe Burrow so that tells you something. lol Bryce Young might be good but his size concerns me. Maybe he”ll be Russell Wilson but I doubt it. More like Tua Tagovailoa who nice but not durable. I wouldn’t be surprised if Max Duggan ends up having a better career than both of them. lol The QB question might be moot if they trade for HC Sean Payton who they just interviewed. I’m not sure how I feel about that. I don’t don’t think they were as bad as their record. They “really” need a good QB. They found a really good RB in Dameon Pierce. I thought their D played hard all year for Lovie Smith.
I think Tom Brady should be at the end. He’s finally lost some of his accuracy. He has a 10 million dollar contract to do. commentary with FOX waiting for him.
Dak Prescott looks great when he has all day to pass. LOL I predicted he would look better. Now I will make prediction that he will revert to throwing interceptions versus the San Francisco pressure and look like bad Dak. I do wonder if the speed of the Dallas D will effect Brock Purdy?
Todd Bowles did a poor job this season and it was reflected in this loss. Do the Bucs retain him? Could this be the final game for Brady and Julio Jones?
If Dan Marino can’t get his Team to the SB without a running game in his prime, Brady won’t do it at 45. I think he’s done because he realizes what you said about Bowles. I like Bowles but he’s not a very good HC. He an excellent Co-ordinator.
Ultimately Brady won’t want to start in a new place having to learn a different system. He had that experience with the Bucs. Jones will probably want to hang on another year with a different team hoping to get a SB ring before he calls it quits but he’s fallen off quite a bit. I’m not sure he can help a Team. So many good young receivers in the game. Brady sure could have used him if he could have gotten open earlier in the game.
It’s a election day
and here are our predictions, with five unique groupings a-e (and locked in, no revisions allowed):
Bill-JoeT Ware Zthomas Revis Holt (a)
Boknows-JoeT Ware Zthomas Revis Holt (a)
Brian Wolf-JoeT Ware Zthomas Barber Allen (b)
TonyP-JoeT Ware Zthomas Revis Ajohnson (c)
Paul-JoeT WareZthomas Revis Ajohnson (c)
Justin-JoeT Ware Zthomas Revis Alewis (d)
Robert Greatest-JoeT Allen Zthomas Revis Alewis (e)
last minute “score card”
worth a read today
https://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2023/01/2023-handicap-for-hall.html
Thanks Paul! Do I win a T-shirt? Haha What is this, you agree with me. :) I just think it’s Zach and AJ’s time.
few reminders about voting process underway today (first, official announcement is not until NFL Honors show, Thurs Feb 9th-could there be leaks-sure but unlikely, were none in 2021-2022 under same timeline/process); seniors and coach are presented and discussed first, one at a time, voted on individually, they do not complete against one another, its 80% yes to each and they are in, voters not informed of those results so as not to taint modern election process.
then committee moves onto modern candidates, each one is presented (3 min max?) and discussed (could be a few minutes or 1/2 hour+), then voters fill ballot with their top 10, results of top 10 given to voters, another round of discussions, followed by each voter selecting their top 5, results of top 5 given to voters, final ballot is yes/no on each of 5, each needs 80%, entire day can take several hours, little if anything in terms of process or events of the election are posted publicly today, Hall or a few voters might post something but no details or any form of results, although I do believe by end of day Hall will tell voters the 9 (or less) names elected
in the coming days all 19 are contacted about their outcome, in coming weeks Hall and production staff (now with an elected players teammate or franchise PFHOFer) will visit and film the “knock on door” reveal video-highlights shown on NFL Honors show when official announcement is made, week later NFL Network aires special behind the scenes of election and those visit videos
we never get specific insights as to presentations, discussions, voter – no visit behind the magic curtain for us, a few voters (Pete King in his column next Monday) might make some general comments and reflects-but really does not give is much insight to the the process or results as Hall asks voters not to make those public, as we never see results (counts or by voter) of any round of ballots,voting
The Greatest must be hearing all the internet and social media buzz because Lewis seems to be gaining momentum. Let us know if you come upon any leaks in the coming weeks of who might make the Hall, Robert. Surprised there weren’t any last year, unless I missed something …
I guess I am the only one who doesn’t think Revis will make it first ballot but he was never the same player after winning the SB with NE.
We cant forget a dark horse like Willis, he could sneak in as well.
The only “leak” I am aware of is in 2021 when LeRoy Butler posted on his social media that he was not elected, other wise that class plus 2022 were elected in mid January, and names didn’t come out until official announcement on NFL Honors show 3+ weeks later. Which is amazing given that those elected are told plus the Hall visits and films the knock the door videos so many folks including family members are aware of outcome.
But who knows…perhaps we get some “leaks” this year as always possible…
( I think filming of Peyton Manning’s surprise “knock” video that featured former coaches as leaked-but not much surprise he was elected)
5/7 Willis and 5/7 Zach Thomas have almost identical profiles but Thomas played longer. Zach had nearly double the tackles and double the ints. and a 147 AV to 108 for Willis. I hope Willis waits as long as Zach. It be a crime if he gets in before Zach Thomas. Willis retired at 30 because of a bad big toe/ feet and he wanted to work in the Silicon Valley. I’d put 5/7 Luke Kuechly in before Willis. Willis isn’t even a MLB. It used to be hard for other LB’s to get into the Hall. I can see if he played on the edge like Demarcus Ware.
Willis ran around blowing people up as well any LB this side of Ray Lewis but didn’t even have 1.000 tackles. I don’t get letting short timers in so easily now aka Calvin Johnson. I will never believe he was deserving of first ballot WR HOF. He wasn’t Randy Moss or Jerry Rice. :)
If Willis is still on ballot when Kuechly joins, that is going to be one very interesting debate.
And there is no first ballot standard, heck that’s not even an official PFHOF designation, its overrated and voters have treated it with so much inconsistency (Jason Taylor is, DeMarcus Ware is not-explain that one) and its all too often a factor of whom is on the ballot. First ballot is a media and fan creation and obsession, and its not even worth debating why Calvin Johnson was as he ain’t no Jerry Rice. Its completely subjective and not a measure of any meaning or significance, except ego and pride I guess.
A PFHOFer is a PFHOFer, when you visit the Hall, the displays, bios, busts don’t have any special recognition for first ballot. There was a time (pre 2000) when the voters would think of it as a special honor (even though election process and rules have nothing that refers to first ballot), but that consideration by the committee is long gone having any real meaning.
The only position I think 1st ballot really matters is WR. That’s based on the history of who’s been selected. When you say ego that screams WR. lol With more WR’s being elected the meaning will be lost. Looking at Calvin Johnson’s stats, early retirement so he can smoke dope and than being put on a pedestal at 36 years of age in the HOF just rubs me wrong. I would have much preferred Terrell Owens be 1st Ballot. His play was more deserving.
What do we think of 3/5 DeAndre Hopkins now after 10 years in the League?
Paul is right … being a 1st Ballot selection is subjective at best and carries more a cache of being considered the best of the best but either a player is elected or not …
Still, like TonyP points out, its rare company for a receiver to be first ballot and in the eyes and minds of subjective fans and media, not all HOF players are the same. Like I have said before … Floyd Little may be an equal HOF player but he aint no Jim Brown.
Hopkins is at crossroads of his career. He got in trouble trying to use enhancers to deal with injuries, which is understandable but had he played a complete season he might have made the PB. How motivated is he to play with Murray, who needs motivation to study film and be a student of the game?
Hopkins could be traded or released but he is really the only weapon Arizona has. He could still make the HOF but wants to win as well and can he help another team while staying healthy in the future? With Brady likely to leave TB, will Evans continue to put up the kind of numbers that could help his HOF case, though some people consider him more a compiler than a great player …
The problem for Hopkins is the logjam at WR. There were seven on the semi final ballot and three finalists, but it’s not guaranteed any of them will be elected this year.
It’s going to just as long and arduous when he’s eventually on the ballot.
from his era, he has Megatron, Fitz, and Julio likely ahead of him (plus we have the mess that is A Brown), Hopkins has recently had two down seasons and will 31 in 2023 season and very likely on his 3 rd team in last 5 seasons…not so sure he can reach heights of all pro season again with so many better younger WRs ahead of him… has 853 career receptions, would likely need to push that to 1000 to have a better chance at election one day.
I don’t know about Hopkins. He was on a clear path but now it feels less of a slam dunk. Still how can anyone deny a 3/5 profile for a WR? We have other players getting in with much less like 0/4 Isaac Bruce, 0/4 Harold Carmichael, 1/3 Charlie Joiner, 1/3 John Stallworth and 1/3 Lynn Swann. Obvious style matters with WR. I scratch my head a little when players like 0/5 Mark Clayton, 1/5 Harold Jackson, 1/4 Wes Chandler (the closest to a Paul Warfield double), 1/4 Gary Clark and 0/3 Rod Smith are looking in for years . Can’t say it’s a lack of accolades.
Wow, Kansas City Chiefs go to 5 consecutive AFC Championship Games. That’s special joining the Oakland Raiders of the 1970’s and the New England Patriots of the 2010’s.
Now moving forward. Jacksonville’s ability to run the ball on the Chiefs D makes me nervous for them in the future. And I don’t think the Chiefs can win unless Mahomes is at near 100%. I hope they get the Bengals at home. They have no easy path now to the SB. lol
Now the Dallas Cowboys get a real test. San Fran should win but who knows if they can roll with Brock Purdy one more time. At some point the Cinderella story will end. No rookie QB has ever led his team to the Super Bowl.
No clue what to expect from Jalen Hurts returning with Philly but I can’t imagine them not gutting this one out. They are a tough team top to bottom. Go Giants!
I expect Buffalo to take down the gutty Joe Burrow. Their OL is too beat up to prevail against the fired up Bills. The Bills will look better than they did versus Miami. I expect Josh Allen to clean up the mistakes.
Easy wins for the Eagles and Chiefs. Mahomes is gimpy though … Two turnovers killed the Jags and the Giants didnt want to tackle last night. Will Jones and Barkley come back?
Hopefully, todays games will be better.
WRs from different eras are always challenging to evaulate. Swann and Stallworth also have the playoff and SB stats to support their elections.
Joiner has the career receptions stat (He retired as the then-NFL leader in career receptions and receiving yards). Carmichael was selected to the NFL 1970s All-Decade Team by voters of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and from 1973 to 1983, Carmichael led all NFL receivers in receptions, receiving yards, and touchdowns-hence top 4 or 5th WR of his era. Bruce has the eight 1000y seasons (still impressive for his era), plus SB and 1024 career receptions (13th all time).
Not so sure 0/5 Mark Clayton, 1/5 Harold Jackson, 1/4 Wes Chandler, 1/4 Gary Clark and 0/3 Rod Smith have strong cases-Jackson and Smith are perhaps the best of that group. I think they have gotten lost in the process over the years as they were not seen as among best 4-5 WRs of their era so never gathered sufficient voters support.
Jackson is deserving playing for run dominant teams but with Fouts having various injuries from 83-87, Chandler missed out on 10,000 yards, which would have helped his case.
Clark is one of the best small receivers to ever play but his teammate making the Hall, makes his case even tougher …
Cincy must be glad to see the snow. It’s an equalizer to Buffalo’s pass rush and the rest of their D.
I kind of agree with you Paul. lol I’d rank worthiness as Jackson and Clark as high and Clayton and Smith as medium and Chandler poor though possible. I think it would have helped Clayton greatly if he was the Dolphin’s all time yardage WR and not Mark Duper.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dolphins-great-mark-clayton-says-his-career-is-definitely-worthy-of-hall-of-fame-consideration/
No AFC Championship game in Atlanta. Can Burrow win two conference championship games in a row?
And the Purdy storyline continues … Third rookie to start a conference championship game since 2004/05 … Prescott has still not gotten the Cowboys out of the divisional round …
You bet he can! Cincy has been the favorite for several months in my mind. With Mahomes’ injury, Cincy will most likely win unless something strange happens.
Brock Purdy reminds me of Joe Burrow with his cool calm collected play and not beating himself. I can’t believe this is the same guy I watched at Iowa State last year. lol
I love watching the AFC’s entertaining teams but I can’t see Cincy or the Chiefs beating the NFC Super Bowl representatives. Maybe a healthy Mahomes had a slight chance with his magic but not if he’s not 100%. I see a repeat of what the Rams and Aaron Donald did to Burrow last year, this year by Philly’s incredible pressure. That’s the way you beat Burrow and Cincy’s rush game is not good enough with a weaker OL.
I stand corrected … Big Ben, Flacco, Sanchez and now Purdy have started conference championship games as rookie QBs …
Dak Prescott is not good enough in his decision making passing the ball especially in big games to ever lead the Cowboys to a Super Bowl. He needs to be less of a focal point letting the run game carry the load like it has in the past when he first came on board. But how often in recent history have we seen great running teams win the Super Bowl?
Maybe Dallas’ Defense reaches Ravens or Bucs or Seahawks or Rams level where the QB can be more of a game manager but I kind of doubt it. They will probably lose their Defensive guru in Dan Quinn now. Unless he becomes their Head Coach? That might be a good move for the Cowboys. It feels like they have squandered years of great O-Line play. Now they improve their D and the OL drops off. Tough to have it going great on both sides of the ball at the same time.
I think the remaining 70s to 90s are in a real tight spot in regards to Hall changes, their era already have several WRs in Hall and post 2000 WRs are putting up numbers (and creating their own logjam of candidates). Plus the aforementioned 70s to 90s WRs are largely in the seniors pool which has elected three WRs in last 3 elections (Carmichael, Pearson,Branch) and voters facing a very deep pool of deserving players from other positions. Even with Clayton and Morgan among the 2023 senior semi-finalists (25 players) plus likely having Ellard among WRs considered for 2024 senior finalists, I don’t see a quick easy path for any of them.
It will be interesting to see how often the Senior Committee elects players from the distant past (careers ending before 1980) or if they are done and moving on.
Paul, do you consider Harold Carmichael and Mark Clayton from the same time as Clayton does when he compares his stats to his?
I still think the people who elect unknowingly discriminate against small WR’s. There are so many that are 5’9″-5’10” that seem to have a good case.
Seniors committee is quickly moving beyond 1960s… still some 80s guys that are viewed highly…Howley is 60s/70s, Riley 70s/80s, Klecko 70s/80s…. but the other 2023 senior finalists were Bob Keuch (60s/70s), Gradishar (1970s/80s) Sharpe (90s)…. so 70s are not out of picture yet…but so shift underway into 80s 90s. But next two elections will still see 70s candidates.
I see Clayton as a 80s WR and Carmichael as 70s…and Clayton really in right spot with so many 80s WRs already in…perhaps voters have moved beyond more???
in recent interview, Hall President Porter expressed interest in continuing 3 seniors a year beyond current Board approved 2023-2025, in 2026 Board would need to make decision on # seniors per year and could continue 3 a year for 2026-2028-but will have to see if that occurs.
I’m probably the only one who hopes Ken Riley gets rejected. Like one contributor here once said Int’s are a little overrated. There were a fair number of lousy QB’s in the 1970’s and what Riley’s interceptions tell me is he had pretty good hands and they threw his way a lot and away from Lemar Parrish. How do they keep overlooking an 8 time Pro bowler? https://www.bengals.com/news/leapin-lemar-s-hall-case-deion-before-deion
I agree with you Tony. The ONLY reason why I kinda want Riley to get elected right now is because the senior committee clearly likes him as they’ve been keeping him in the mix for a while now. He’ll just continue to gum up the works and might take up a precious spot next year if he doesn’t make it in. But yes, I do not understand the fixation on Riley. I assume it’s simply the gaudy interception total and the fan support. For much of his career, Riley was probably the third best DB on his own team. I think Lemar Parrish was a legit hall of famer and is one of the reasons why Riley had so many picks. I dont know why he’s forgotten (he has all the honors and was a great special teamer as well). And if it’s about putting in a Bengal (and I think to some degree it is)…why not Ken Anderson? He was on the list this year. I think he makes more sense than Riley. It’s a bizarre set of seniors. I love Howley, am fine with Klecko…but I don’t see how on Earth you look at that list of 15 names they considered and decide that Riley and Klecko are two of the three most deserving guys.
New Hall President met with the voters last spring and asked their input on how to improve the election process, and the most significant outcome was increase seniors back to 2 per (Hall Board did one better and increased to 3). So although I can agree that Riley was far from the most deserving senior, the committee (changed to 12 members, working from serious of votes down to 25 semi-finalists to 9 finalists and all 9 finalists formally presented to committee-other very welcome improvements to the voting process) picked Riley, along with Klecko and Howley. All three had been among top seniors considered by committee in recent years-Klecko apparently 2nd in 2022 and Riley 2nd in 2021 – so new committee decided to clear the queue of seniors. That is exactly what happened, but if full committee rejected any of them during election on Jan 17th – it hurts senior selection process going forward by placing those rejected candidates back into the queue and goes counter to what the voters wanted-more senior slots. My guess is all three got elected and moving forward the slate is cleaner, including three very solid candidates who finished 4-5-6 in 2023 (Gradishar, Bob Keuchenberg and Sharpe) top of deserving queue for 2024.
It sounds great Paul but we still cant assume 9 seniors will be elected by 2025. Some voters might still consider that too many and lets hope this isn’t the case but even 7 or 8 out of 9 is still hopeful of relieving gridlock …
As long as Howley isn’t a victim, I am fine.
Really depends on if the six seniors in 24 and 25 are of good quality or not they could pick let’s say 2 bad seniors and 1 good one (2024-25) haven’t been on much been dealing with some family and health issues
Brian: Hall President meet with all the voters and asked them what changes they would like to see-and the strongest request was to increase seniors – so seems odd to me that 10+ among the 49 (resulting in less than needed 80% voter approval for election) would begin to reject seniors because they think Hall is electing too many seniors – plus go against their own wishes and piss off their peer voters who advocated for increase and especially those who spent time making the senior finalist choices. For that reason I suspect all 9 in next three years will be elected. Riley would seem to be the most vulnerable this year-but for reasons listed above his rejection seems unlikely to me – as it just puts him back in pool and wastes this years slot and he ends up using a 2nd one down the road.
But I agree that the 2023-2025 nine need to be solid picks and elected, then Porter and voters can discuss keeping at 3 or moving back to 2 for 2026 and beyond. At that point it will again be up to the voters and seniors committee to make case to Porter (and one he can than take to the Hall Board) that in 2026 there still remains many deserving seniors and thus need to keep at 3 per year 2026-2029-a scenario that Porter has already stated support for and possibility for occurring.
I worry less about whether 2023 three finalists are “weak’ (with Riley and Klecko) but more about how the nine total next three years looks like.
So let’s say 2023-2025 nine seniors elected looks like this: Howley, Riley, Klecko, Gradishar, Sharpe, Bob Keuch, Meador,Baughman, Anderson
Its a solid group plus plenty of evidence that there remains many other deserving seniors (Greenwood, Craig, Nobis, Wistert, Emerson, Dilweg,Hayes,Jacoby etc..) to keep at 3 per year for 2026-2028
You may be right Paul but lets say those 9 you forecasted make it. It still doesn’t correct the wrong of Dilweg, Emerson, Lewellen, Wistert, Matheson, Shofner, Patton, Howton and others not making it.
They have to get it right with all decades considered, not just 1960 onward but these voters only know what they have seen.
Maybe the only chance these older players will get is if they keep the three nominations till at least, 2030.
Oh I agree pre 1960s need to be in the mix – perhaps they will but unfortunately I am more convinced they won’t. My point was a solid nine better ensures Hall continues with 3 a year in 2026-2028 and I don’t think pre 1960s seniors need to be included in order to justify to continue 3 seniors per year
Conference Championship Games Predictions
Philly vs Cincy in the SB …
If Philly beats SF tomorrow, DC Jonathan Gannon will get serious consideration for a future HC job. In only two seasons with Philly and Sirianni, the Birds had 70 sacks, and 3rd in defensive passer rating this year which could help them go all the way …
Mahomes can add to his developing legend by making another SB, while Burrow can accomplish what no other Bengals QB has ever done if his team can go to the big dance again …
Purdy, whether he wins or loses, should keep Shanny’s job safe for awhile because Jimmy G will be gone and Lance can still learn and get better as a backup …
I always say when it doubt go with the home team. My prediction is Chiefs 28 Bengals 27 and Eagles 24 49ers 17
Easy win for the Birds … Reddick was huge and a tough injury for Purdy to end his season …
If Mahomes wins SB this year he’ll be a top 10 QB ever. He is Canton bound regardless but it would put him in rare air. Now we are going to have the first brothers playing in same Super Bowl. Both Canton bound ( Travis and Jason Kelce). It’s going to be an epic Super Bowl.
Won’t get an argument from me on Mahomes. lol Chris Jones and the D deserve a lot of credit too. Yeah I actually think the Chiefs match up better versus the Eagles than versus the 49ers. I don’t know about epic, only if Mahomes, Sneed, Kelce and the WR’s can heal up enough. I’m glad they have two weeks until SB!
Don’t forget Andy Reid! And the owner Clark Hunt deserves a lot of credit. Yes, if Chiefs win it reminds me a lot of what the Houston Astros have done in the MLB over the same stretch. Damn impressive in today’s age of revolving door for players. I thought KC would suffer losing the Cheetah and the Honey Badger.
Tough game for the Bengals but the coaching on both sides was stupid … Mahomes is hobbling around and Reid doesnt call running plays, while Mixon for the Bengals gets eight carries? Sheeesh … Scantling and Jones had huge games but these coaches get too cute.
The Bengals had to be frustrated with all the playclock problems and ticky-tack penalties.
HOF Cases With Help Winning SB
Chiefs — Reid, Mahomes, Kelce, Jones, Brown(down the road?)
Eagles — Suh, Kelce, Johnson
Chiefs loss won’t shift hall path for Reid mahomes and Kelce as they all already in
Brian I agree 100% i was baffled as to why the chiefs didnt call more running plays with mahomes and his ankle injury and i also wonder why mixon didnt get more carries in a game that decides your season
Crazy coaching this weekend Robert. I forgot to mention Fletcher Cox of the Eagles, who also has had a great career but borderline HOF worthy …
KC was saved by Scantling, who had a great game while the other receivers went down like flies. I think the coaches will run the ball a lot more in the SB …
KC was the number one passing team in the NFL. While they do run the ball a little better than in the past I don’t see them getting away from it. I hope they have some healthy WR’s. They really need Mahomes to be mobile again in this SB. It’s a tough ask.
When in doubt go with the home team and a great Defense over Offense. My head says the Eagles in a game very like the KC vs Tampa Bay SB 31-9. But i will give KC a little bit more credit and say they lose a 34 – 20. I don’t think it will be close in the end.
The wild card is if the Chiefs Defense can rise to the occasion with stellar game? Possible but I’m doubting it with that Eagles OL. i think Kelce will somewhat neutralize Chris Jones.
Jeff were you the one on twitter back in august talking about bobby boyd
Class of 2028 first ballot – Watt and Brady
Haha … I wont believe it for Brady or Watt until the first games in Sept start, without them …
Carlos Dunlap can also win a ring for KC, a great career but might not make the HOF.
Brady is done as is Watt
Yeah, if Brady comes back yet again nobody will ever believe another word he says. The announcement came much quicker this time. I thought it would drag on for another month until the start of the new league year,
Aaron Donald has been flirting with retirement but with McVay coming back I’d say Donald will also be back next season. It would be one heck of a HOF 2028 Class if he doesn’t.
Anything can happen between now and september … The championship spotlight is something Brady has always craved. He doesn’t know anything else but playing football and would be so critical broadcasting games that the networks would probably dump him after a year. We shall see because a team like Mia, SF or TN is just one QB injury away from trying to lure him back.
Shanahan knows that time could be running out on him if Purdy or Lance cant stay healthy because this team has every reason to compete for a championship again …
Always possible Brady comes back but already making $30m a year with Fox Sports (more than he would get as QB) would likely give him pause to jump back into game early in 2023 as tempting as that might be he is smart enough to realize that SF, MIA or TN don’t guarantee a trip to playoffs and SB chance, especially in AFC where he would need to get past Allen, Burrows, Mahommes, Lawrence in a playoff run. I also think he knows his game has fallen off, yes TB had injuries and personal issues all season and into playoffs but his arm strength and accuracy was got as great even though he lead league in passing attempts and completions, he’s not same QB he was in recent years. I think he is done as player.
I thought Brady was originally offered 10 million by Fox but now looks like 37 million for 10 years. That’s just crazy! There’s a fair number of people who don’t like him. :) To me he would be like Troy Aikman a little stiff and too serious but it has worked for Aikman. If a guy has good knowledge to impart people will accept. Tony Romo is the one who’s become annoying to me. Too wishy washy just let the action happen. lol
JJ Watt has the best case for coming back as a player but I don’t think he wants to put his body through another possible injury and why would you come back to Arizona who has no shot at a championship? I think JJ would have the better personality for play by play announcer than Brady. Why do we have to analyze the game to death? I guess I’m looking for the next Dandy Don or John Madden. Someone with some pizazz. The TE Greg Olsen is starting to grow on me. Ironic that he’s the one who would be replace as number one play by play guy.
Its still a jockocracy to me … most former players want the easy money of tv without actually criticizing or taking shots at the league. They all talk too much during a broadcast including the play-by-play announcers and keep glossing over or missing close plays … It could be by design to emphasize replays more but they need to call it when they see it instead of completing their opinions of previous plays. You hardly ever see broadcasters isolating blocking or defensive play in the trenches anymore and they seem to be the last people to see offensive false starts or holding …
Coaching is a grind but I think the competitor in Tom would be better for that than broadcasting but we will see come september.
I know I sound crazy but if former Chief, Jared Allen makes the HOF … look for a Chiefs victory
All great points Brian. I think you hit on something with replay. It changed the way the game was called. I think the color commentators lost some of their requirement for imagination for the whole game. Not every fan wants wants to nerd out on the details of every replay. Yes ,they talk too much!! lol One thing , I’m glad they got rid of three person booth. No one can replicate what Frank Gifford, Dandy Don Meredith and Howard Cosell did at the heights of their powers. They tried for a long time.
I hope you’re right about the Chiefs. :)
For what its worth, Clark Judge has the talkoffamenetwork running again but its called talkoffametwo.com … Still under SI though and I wasn’t able to comment on some of the articles without using facestalk or twitter, which I am not on … If anyone can comment without using those, please let me know how?
I’ll check today Brian and let you know
AJ Green retired today … was a top player his first seven years but fizzled his last five with complacency and injuries …
Brady wont start his FOX job till 2024. Seems odd to wait that long unless he either wants rest, being with his kids more or seeing if any team makes an offer for him. Will he help the Bucs on freeing up cap space-dead money?
help Bucs??? – they already have option of making Brady a pre or post June 1 cut -thus deciding whether to take all cap hit in 2023 or spread across 2023/2024 whether he works for Fox in 2023 or not is no factor for that Buc decision
and reminder class of 2023 official announcement will be on Thursday evening this week (Feb 9th) during NFL Honors Show on NBC, 9-11pm EST- timing will likely be sometime around 945-1000p
From what I read, for the Bucs to spread it over 2023-2024, he would have to sign for 2023 at 1.2 million before being a post June 1st cut …
im thinking in terms of brady brian i think its more of him wanting to spend some time with his kids and a chance for his body to rest
Brady’s making the right decision to take a year out. Time with his children and he’ll take a year to observe and learn the job. He’s already mentioned he’ll be 50% watching the Super Bowl and 50% listening and learning from the FOX commentary team on Sunday.
I agree boknows34 100%
I was thinking who I would like to hear as a top color guy if I could pick anyone. I wonder what Phillip Rivers is doing? Drew Brees is Ok. 100% hands down Peyton Manning is the best candidate IMO. He would be good at anything he does. Wouldn’t he be great with Jim Nance? Or maybe a Head Coach?
I don’t Peyton Manning (or any recently retired superstar who had successful career and make $100s millions) is interested in a “low paying” HC job with 60-70 hr weeks year round. It why you see very few of such players as HCs -its a commitment and sacrifice most are not willing to make.
You’re probably right. There is Deon Sanders. He must have made a lot of money over his career for play and endorsements. Some I guess really miss the game. Jeff Saturday is the only successful player I can recall taking a shot at HC.
Peyton Manning turned down ESPN’s offer of approx. 20 million a year for MNF.
Tony Romo’s star seems to be losing it’s shine. It’s reported Nance wasn’t happy when Romo got a 100 million dollars and now Romo wants to be his buddy. There’s supposedly friction there and I think you can hear it in there chemistry. Nance is a pro but Romo says some dumb stuff. Hard to want to elevate him I would imagine.
I like Troy Aikman but he is Mr. Obvious. Tells you exactly what you can see for yourself most of the time. He’s got a good repore with Joe Buck who I tolerate. lol I wouldn’t miss Buck if he left for good. His Daddy was way better even if the did botch the McGwire record setting home run. lol Tom Brady would probably be a little better than Aikman.
IMO Phillip Rivers would be refreshing like Romo was in the beginning but I agree with the sentiment he’s a talker like Terry Bradshaw and in the color position his bosses would need to put the reigns on him. Still I’d like to see him take a shot at it.
You know who I was really surprised by and enjoy listening to is Jason Garrett. He’s got great insight. One of my favorites on the occasion he does a game. What is it with all these Cowboys in the biz. lol
College football announcer Todd Blackledge moves from ESPN to NBC after a very long time at ESPN to do Big Ten game of the week. He’s pretty good.
I wouldnt be surprised if eventually romo goes to cbs and says its either him or me
btw brian to answer your question aj green is not hovg or hof worthy
Yeah AJ Green was definitely on a HOF trajectory along with Julio Jones and than both started to have injuries after 30 at the same time. Jones has a little better case and was the better WR IMO. I’ve got Andre Johnson just a tad ahead of Jones. I suspect Jones makes the HOF within 10 years time. AJ Green’s case just falls a little short though his numbers look good. Those numbers are becoming more common though. Torry Holt and Chad Ochocinco Johnson should get in though not a big supporter of either one. Maybe one day Green gets in as a Senior.
tony p. i fully agree 100%
I don’t see path for Ochocinco or Green -even as seniors, just too many other WRs from their era with better resumes who are in and will be.
At some point voters will just move on from those WRs
I agree 100% Paul which Position do you think they should move onto next
They only thing I see holding Ochocinco back is that his personality might not be to some’s liking being a little flakey, having personal issues and not being able to learn a new system with New England. He fell off the map quick but was great for awhile. I do think he has the resume as a 2/6 . I’m not confident but time will tell.
i can see your point tony p in terms of ocho cinco not getting in but if theres anything that might hold ocho back id say it was more of a combination of things that you stated
Klecko In
reminder official announcement during NFL Honors show should be sometime between 930-1000p EST
could be other leaks before than but I am not going to be jumping on here to report (also rumor that Hester was not elected)
Paul … Robert the Greatest … any leaks or rumors? Anything off Twitter or Instagram?
Defensive class for sure but can a wide receiver slip in with Joe Thomas at tackle?
Can three cornerbacks make this class ?
Just posted on Brian about klecko getting in
If Howley isn’t announced as a Hall of Famer tonight, just cancel the NFL Honors show.
Hearing Jared Allen didnt make it …
Class Of 2023
Revis
Barber
Thomas
Z Thomas
Ware
CONGRATULATION !!
Wow 3 Overrall Cornerbacks !!
I was 3 of 5
J.Thomas
Z.Thomas
Ware
Barber
Revis
Howley
Klecko
Riley
Coryell
Class of 2023
HOWLEY AND WARE !!
Congratulations to all the inductees, especially Chuck Howley.
I had Holt instead of Barber. Surprised they went with two modern era CBs and no WRs. Ronde is a good choice. I just had him down for 2024.
Correction … 8 of 9
Congrats to Coryell, Riley, Klecko and Howley
He’s in, Chuck Howley is in.
I think my eyes have finally dried over that news.
Would never believe seven defensive players would make a HOF class …
Really Riley is in . Klecko I didn’t support , The rest are great. No Jared Allen or Andre Johnson but super happy for Zach Thomas!! They couldn’t keep him out much longer. lol I figured Ware had a slightly better case than Allen. Allen should get in next year. I bet Andre Johnson is disappointed.
The only pick I had wrong was Andre Johnson for Ronde Barber. I just figured one offensive skill guy would make it. Barber is a hell of a pick.
Anyone know the final 10 ?
Sorry Robert … Not This Year
Final 10
Thomas
Z Thomas
Revis
Ware
Barber
Allen
Lewis
Johnson
Holt
Wayne
6-10 not elected
Allen
Lewis
Johnson
Holt
Wayne
There seems to be a reach once again – Pearson 2021, Young 2022, Klecko this year, Covert 2020. I mean, I’d rather let in underwhelming candidates than omit deserving ones, some candidates simply don’t wow me.
Whatever, Howley is in, Coryell is in. That’s the main thing.
I think Klecko was considered a safe pick Corey … blue-collar versatile and popular with mostly, white sportswriters who viewed him humorous and similar to Dan Hampton. I am okay with it but would put in more than ten others who were more deserving, including another Cowboy in Harvey Martin.
I feel bad for Woodson not being the third Cowboy in this Class, considering safeties have made the last six elected classes but he is in the queue for future chances …
With regards to Woodson this was actually a good result even though he didn’t progress to the final 10. With Barber and Revis elected and Lewis no longer eligible, the path for DBs has more or less been cleared for him.
2024 looks like it might be a catch-up year with only Peppers and Gates as first-time finalists. With so many defensive players elected this year I’d expect they’ll look to balance that out next year, especially with the Seniors committee. Good news perhaps for Sharpe and Jacoby. WRs should also make a breakthrough on the modern era list as all three of Johnson, Holt and Wayne were in the final 10.
There’ll be at least six new modern era finalists next year. Peppers and Gates should be two. The other four coming from this year’s semi-finalists.
Peppers
Allen
Two WRs from Johnson, Holt, Wayne
Woodson
That’s my very, very early 2024 prediction with Willis and Hester just missing out.
I agree 100% Brian about Klecko. He was extremely popular with New York media and fans when he retired. I did think his trouble with the law might take off some shine but I don’t think so. People are forgiving. I think I might have more of a problem with Hampton but whatever. lol Steve McMichael is very underrated and was every bit as good as Klecko IMO. Both were incredibly powerful men. I think McMichael was some sort of weight lifting champ or something.
You mentioned Woodson for good reason. I’d put Eric Allen in the same place as him being a little under appreciated by the Committee. Neither one do I consider as raw raw guys who tooted their own horns. Two of the best I remember at the time. Allen was UPI Def. POY and didn’t make the All Pro Team that year. Kind of forgotten on those great Eagle Defenses but had a big impact. He didn’t miss many games in his career which is impressive. I think Woodson’s low Int. total of 23 might be holding him back a little in the same way it did Steve Atwater but there is no doubt he will get into the HOF soon. He’s too good and played for a winner.
Was that Lewis’ last chance in the modern pool?
Yes on Lewis TonyP …
BoKnows34 delivers on anticipating the possible queue for 2024 but I still believe Gates could get in first ballot over an inflated-era receiver with his huge number of TD catches while listed as TE … Peppers without a doubt will be first ballot …
Early Class Of 2024 Wishlist
Peppers
Allen
Gates
Woodson
Willis
Prediction
Peppers
Allen
Gates
Johnson
Woodson
Brian, I don’t see it really with Harvey Martin. If another senior Cowboy had to be included, I’d go for Niland or Cornell Green over Martin, though you’d have to elect many more seniors before we get to them.
Me personally, if you put someone from the Sack Exchange in, I’d have gone for Gastineau, who had better profiles, better counting stats and while not always everything, does fit the ‘fame’ bill of the Hall of Fame.
Basically, the aforementioned comments I’m seeing insinuate Klecko was a pick of perception and not substance, not sure that’s what we should be electing candidates off of, especially when many others in a loaded senior pool and limited spots continue to wait.
Not a Jets fan, but I’m old enough to remember Klecko and Gastineau. Klecko was a much better football player than Gastineau. Both were high motor guys but Gastineau played 1/3 of the snaps Klecko did. Gastineau was essentially a designated pass rusher. Klecko played every down and I guarantee he was more of a focus for OC’s. Of the 3 Seniors, Riley was the one that probably has 4 or 5 more deserving CB’s in the Que. Klecko was probably 2nd best DT in the Que, where only Roger Brown could be more highly considered.
Thank goodness Howley is in. Long overdue. I now feel Eddie Meador is the omission now that is most glaring to me. Maybe Sterling Sharpe. Hopefully both get in soon.
I’m fine with Klecko going in but find him a little underwhelming – he’s deserving and was probably underrated, but I think he was far from one of the top 3 available picks. I like him better all-around than Gastineau but I think there might be something to the idea that NY fans and media really raised his profile – got the impression that Gary Myers had quite an influence in the senior selections. The one I really don’t understand no matter how hard I look is Ken Riley. I know he had a ton of INTs but…not a single pro bowl? One all-pro team? He’s always struck me as above average, but nowhere close to HOF. Meanwhile, I LOVE Lemar Parrish. I think he belongs in the hall and he has the honors unlike Riley, and he may be a significant reason why Riley had so many picks. Why are Cincy fans (not to mention HOF voters) so high on Riley but seem to have completely forgotten Parrish? Why Riley ahead of Ken Anderson (I think Anderson is borderline but he makes a lot more sense – won an MVP)? I realize that plenty of guys I like for the HOF are players that other people don’t like and I can always be wrong….but I’m really lost on the Ken Riley thing.
I had hoped expanding the senior slots would be really good and that we’d be guaranteed to get more of these deserving, overlooked guys in and perhaps over time we will…but I’m afraid the committee just bats around .300 (to my eyes, at least) no matter what. For every really deserving senior, there are two underwhelming ones – every Chuck Howley has a Riley and a Klecko, every Chris Hanburger or Johnny Robinson has a Floyd Little and a Jim Covert etc. I’d love to expect that next year we’ll get something like Gradishar, Al Wistert and Maxie Baughan but instead we’ll probably get Jim Marshall and Mark Clayton.
I have no problems with the moderns this year! Thought Joe Thomas was a lock, not surprised by Revis but wouldn’t have been surprised or offended if he’d waited a year, really glad that Zack Thomas and especially Ronde Barber – a guy I actually played against in high school – made it in, and Ware is pretty obvious. Not surprised but a little bummed that Albert Lewis didn’t make it – wish he’d been a finalist sooner.
Admittedly, Klecko and Gastineau were before my time, as someone born in the early ’90s, but I find myself believing that concrete things, not abstract things, should drive someone’s Hall of Fame argument. I do know Gastineau has better profiles (3/5 vs. 2/4 for Klecko), recorded more sacks (107.5 vs. 78.5 – yes, I know Klecko spent part of his career as an interior lineman), recovered the same amount of fumbles (nine). Furthermore, if it was the Sack Exchange, Gastineau led in back-to-back years, setting a record that stood for more than a decade.
So, don’t mind me if I find Klecko underwhelming. Not that I find Gastineau to be the most pressing need in the senior pool, far from it, but if it was up to me, if I had to put someone from the Sack Exchange in, I’m putting Gastineau in over Klecko.
Meador absolutely is very overlooked and very much belongs. He’s probably in my top four in the senior pool, along with Baughan, Gradishar and Howton – top five would include Shofner or Patton, I’d reckon.
I, too, think Parrish would’ve been a better selection than Riley.
Jeff completely nailed it. Hanburger, Johnny Robinson, Tinglehoff, Kramer, Brazile, Howley were all top-of-the-line senior selections who should’ve been in decades ago. Then what were they thinking with Dave Robinson, Jimbo Covert, Joe Klecko, Ken Riley, Drew Pearson, seriously? And they couldn’t be bothered to enshrine Bobby Dillon or Cliff Branch until after they were gone? Really?
Clayton better not get selected over Harold Jackson. Clayton doesn’t really belong at all.
Howton is turning 93 in July, Meador is turning 86 in August and Baughan is turning 85 in August. Please nominate those three next. Then you can nominate a combination of Shofner, Gradishar, Wistert, Patton, Sweeney and Jackson after that.
I agree with a lot of what you say Corey. That’s my view on Gastineau and Klecko also and I was around though don’t claim to be an expert on the New York Jets. Other than I despised them as Miami Dolphins fan. :)
As I remember it, Gastineau was the best player on that DL but I can’t say if he had a HOF career. But maybe with the ones they let in today. lol What I know is the Jets strength was that all four players played at an elite level albeit not for a real long time. The Sack Exchange was one of the best D-Lines of all time. I just think it was felt that a line that good in history needed a representative in the HOF and as was said by Brian, Klecko was the safe choice. I do think it’s sad to say Klecko is deserving and Gastineau is not. I know Gastineau is hurt by that. I think members of the Hogs OL may feel the same way about Russ Grimm. And I know Bob Kuechenburg felt he belonged along with Langer and Little as they formed perhaps the best OL ever up to their time. I also believe as time goes by there will be pressure to get one of Dallas’ OL players from the 90’s into the HOF.
Maybe Meador or Baughn make it but I think you can forget the rest of those old timers. i’d be ok if they started with Harold Jackson and moved forward. I didn’t understand Bob Hayes and not Otis Taylor. I don’t think Sweeney has a shot with his reputation for being a steroid player. He’s much like Lyle Alzado. It’s too in your face.
I think Mark Clayton belongs at some point though I’m not sure if my sentiment isn’t tied to Dam Marino if I be honest. Hard for me to be totally objective. I tend to think it would be good for the HOF.
I was just a kid when he was at his best but what I remember most about Klecko is his strength. He could make double teams look silly. I think Klecko at his peak was pretty close to Gastineau’s level as a pass rushing DE (check out his 1981 season). But Klecko gets points for versatility, making all-pro at NT and pro bowl and DT – his interior play was probably helpful to Gastineau. The perception of Gastineau as a prima donna doesn’t help him (I’ve gotten the impression that teammates revered Klecko and really disliked Gastineau). Anyway, I give Klecko the edge overall but I understand the argument for Gastineau. Anyway, I think Joe is deserving and feel good for him but I think there were a significant number of better selections that could have been made.
The list of 25 they supposedly had for consideration this year contained some great names and some head scratchers that just made me think it was almost random. I would’ve picked Gradishar, Howley and Meador (maybe Baughan next) were it up to me. I hope they all get in at some point. I think Gradishar may have been the best overall player on the list – no clue how you choose Klecko or Riley ahead of him (and in prior years….Jim Covert? Drew Pearson? I dont get it at all). I was also a little dumbfounded by the receivers they considered. Sterling Sharpe I understand, but I can’t get excited about Mark Clayton. Stanley Morgan was underrated, but HOF? I’ve never been able to get excited about Otis Taylor. Del Shofner, Harold Jackson and Billy Howton are much more my speed (I do agree with Corey – when it comes to seniors, there’s something to say for prioritizing players that are not only deserving…but still alive. It still burns me up that they snubbed Dick Stanfel twice, once when he was past 80, and then finally elected him immediately after his death. Similar with Bobby Dillon).
Jimbo Covert and Harold Carmichael were elected by a special panel that included John Madden and Bill Belicheck for the NFL’s 100th birthday.
our contest results – we all tied at 4/5 ………. LOL….we are all THE GREATEST
early….very early class of 2024 prediction
Prediction
Peppers
Gates
Allen
Johnson
Willis
“Klecko was the safe choice. I do think it’s sad to say Klecko is deserving and Gastineau is not. I know Gastineau is hurt by that. I think members of the Hogs OL may feel the same way about Russ Grimm.”
Based on what? Personality? Historically, I’ve always thought of Gastineau, and not Klecko, as the face of the Sack Exchange. I will say, I think it was the right call to put Grimm in over Jacoby, as I’m not wowed by Jacoby.
“Maybe Meador or Baughn make it but I think you can forget the rest of those old timers. i’d be ok if they started with Harold Jackson and moved forward. I didn’t understand Bob Hayes and not Otis Taylor. I don’t think Sweeney has a shot with his reputation for being a steroid player. He’s much like Lyle Alzado. It’s too in your face.”
I will never forget, nor stop advocating for players whom I think belong in Canton, whether they’re alive, whether they’re deceased, no matter how old they are or how long it’s been since they played.
Was Alzado’s case not more well known? I didn’t even know that about Sweeney, But he’s one of the very best linemen not in Canton. I’d reckon people don’t even know about Sweeney as well as they do for other baggage.
“I think Mark Clayton belongs at some point though I’m not sure if my sentiment isn’t tied to Dam Marino if I be honest. Hard for me to be totally objective. I tend to think it would be good for the HOF.”
Clayton would be a better choice than Super Duper, but that doesn’t mean Clayton was very wowing. He had those five Pro Bowls, but like someone like Len Hauss, no All-Pro selections.
“The perception of Gastineau as a prima donna doesn’t help him (I’ve gotten the impression that teammates revered Klecko and really disliked Gastineau). Anyway, I give Klecko the edge overall but I understand the argument for Gastineau.”
Simply being a prima donna does not, nor should not, disqualify someone from being considered for the Hall of Fame. We’re not talking about a Jim Tyrer or Darren Sharper kind of circumstance with Gastineau here. Again, if you want to emphasize the “Fame” part of the Hall of Fame, Gastineau not only bests Klecko in different accolades, but was also a celebrity, and again, when I think Sack Exchange, it’s Gastineau whom I think of first. I don’t lose sleep over Gastineau’s exclusion, but I’d at least be okay with a future election, more than I am with Klecko.
You could make the argument for Sterling Sharpe, but not before the many others. I’m not crazy about Otis Taylor, but I’d take him over Drew Pearson, or even worse, Harold Carmichael. Oh, my goodness, what were they thinking putting Carmichael in before Branch, before Harold Jackson? Sterling Sharpe, like Gastineau, like Deron Cherry, like Joey Browner, all have cases I’m not opposed to, but they need to wait with the older players in front of them.
Off the top of my head, there are three living players under the age of 80 whose nomination I could get behind.
Harold Jackson: Five Pro Bowls, one First Team-All Pro selection, twice led the NFL in receiving yards, once led in receptions, once led in touchdowns. He led the entire 1970s in all three categories.
Randy Gradishar: Seven Pro Bowls, two First Team All-Pro selections, 1978 Defensive Player of the Year, had 20 interceptions, 13 fumble recoveries, maybe the best overall player in the senior pool.
George Kunz: Seven Pro Bowls, one First-Team All Pro selection, I wouldn’t put him at the very top of my list, but he’d hardly look out of place with a bust in Canton.
These players need to be selected while they’re still here.
Maxie Baughan: Nine Pro Bowls, one First Team All Pro selection, 24.5 sacks, 10 fumble recoveries, somehow didn’t make the All-1960s Team.
Eddie Meador: 6 Pro Bowls, Two First Team All-Pro Selections, 1960s All Decade, 46 interceptions, 22 fumble recoveries, led the NFL in defensive touchdowns in 1969. If you want to talk about versatility, he was a Pro Bowler both at cornerback and safety his career.
Billy Howton: Four Pro Bowls, two First-Team All-Pro, twice led the NFL in receiving yards, including as a rookie in 1952, led in yards and touchdowns in 1956, broke Don Hutson’s record as the NFL’s All-Time leading receiver. Get him in there.
Jim Ray Smith: Turns 91 years young this month. Five Pro Bowls, Three First-Team All-Pro selections. I myself even forget about him sometimes, but another one who had a great short career.
Deceased Players who need to be inducted.
Del Shofner: Five Pro Bowls, Five First Team All-Pro Selection, 1960s All-Decade Team, he checks off three big boxes right there.
Jimmy Patton: Five Pro Bowls, Five First-Team All-Pro selections, 52 career interceptions, led the NFL with 11 in 1958, among the very best at his peak.
Al Wistert: Four First-Team All-Pro selections, one Pro Bowl selection, a member of the 1940s All-Decade Team.
Walt Sweeney: AFL All-Star or Pro Bowler every year from 1964 through 1972, 10 straight seasons, had retroactive First Team All Pro selections in 1967 and 1968, made it onto the All-Time AFL Team.
Start with each of the aforementioned candidates, all of whom I will advocate and support, worry about the others later.
Early 2024 Prediction for final 10
Jared Allen
Andre Johnson
Dwight Freeney
Julius Peppers
Patrick Willis
Antonio Gates
Reggie Wayne
Darren Woodson
Reggie Wayne
Devin Hester
Opps counted Wayne twice. Willie Anderson is 10. Looks to me like there’s room for someone else to shoot up the list but no clue who. Maybe Fred Taylor or Vince Wilfork like Paul thought. Or even Eric Allen but just guessing.
Early 2024 Prediction for final 10
Jared Allen
Willie Anderson
Antonio Gates
Torry Holt
Devin Hester
Andre Johnson
Julius Peppers
Reggie Wayne
Patrick Willis
Darren Woodson
Walt Sweeney’s drug and alcohol abuse is very well documented as are his lawsuits with the League. I’m not a supporter. For me jim Tyrer is a different story. As far as I know his trouble was after he played. I know other great players have had problems during their career aka Lawrence Taylor but this feels different. Apparently a lot of people feel the same way. He’s just not someone I’d elevate. It goes a little against the idea that character doesn’t matter but I’m OK with that in rare cases in the NFL. I know these men aren’t angels. lol
Corey, I think it’s good that you are supporting the older players. But for me I think realistically their chances are so slim now that after writing about some of them for more than a dozen years I’m moving on. I think I’ve said there are a small handful I could still get behind.
As far as Mark Clayton, not all catches are created equal. At his size and with the way Marino throw up the ball I think it’s amazing how he adjusted to the ball. He was a little guy, he wasn’t big like the guys you see today. And his 84 TD’s speak for themselves. Isaac Bruce was an 0/4. WR is one position that the accolades don’t seem to tell the tale. I think Clayton has a good case not a great case but I know there are a lot of good ones out there. Like I said my sentiment is it would be good for the NFL HOF to have the Marino – Clayton connection in the HOF.
How many great HOF QB’s don’t have a HOF WR since 1970? And if not who is the best candidate?
Great points guys … With Willie Anderson now moving up in the queue, maybe Wisniewski, Webb and Nalen can get more traction as well. Evans could crack the top-15 next year but not betting on it.
On defense it will be interesting to see if Williams at DT and Wilfork continue to advance. With Willis being the next linebacker in line, who will give him competition until Kuechly and Suggs are eligible ? Can Bowman crack the semifinals? We cant sleep on Eric Allen as well because there is no one at CB for now …
If we’re being completely objective here, if character doesn’t matter, if only on-field performance matters, it’s hard to justify excluding Sweeney, or even Tyrer – as awful as it was what he did, based on that, because they objectively had Hall of Fame caliber careers. It’s totally understandable why Tyrer isn’t in, same for Sharper, but the way I see it, the Hall should adjust its standards then not to look like hypocrites. And maybe being a prima donna can be irritating, but it isn’t a crime.
So, if older players got nominated, Tony, would you support them? Or stop supporting them because you’ve moved on? Isn’t it better late than never for someone to get their due? I will always champion the causes of those I feel belong, no matter what.
Do you know who else was little for their position? Pat Fischer, heck he played Harold Carmichael very tough. The quality of catches argument was used to justify Lynn Swann, but I don’t see it for Swann or for Clayton.
Let’s talk about younger seniors – Sterling Sharpe, Joey Browner, Deron Cherry, Mark Gastineau, Louis Wright, Jay Hilgenberg, Everson Walls, it’ll be a handful of years until Richmond Webb is senior eligible, and let me tell you – I’m putting anyone of those players in before I’m enshrining Mark Clayton. Who out of the aforementioned younger seniors would you bypass to give a Mark Clayton nomination to?
The way receivers are having to wait TonyP, Big Ben might get voted in before Ward.
So far its Brett Favre, unless Sharpe gets voted in soon. Elway like Marino never had a HOF receiver until Sharpe, who like Gates with Rivers, is listed as a TE …
To this day, had Jimmy Johnson kept Irving Fryar with Marino in 1996 onward, instead of letting him walk, Fryar might have been Marino’s first and perhaps only HOF receiver?
Moon made it without a HOF receiver as well.
If Rodgers retires soon, he will as well unless Adams gets elected in the future but who knows with HC McDaniels, who got rid of both Cutler and now Carr at QB …
Tony has created a fresh new thread on election results so we can move our reflections and comments there
https://www.zoneblitz.com/2023/02/09/pro-football-hall-of-fame-class-of-2023/
I dont know if my other comment went through TonyP …
So far as QBs since 1970 …
Favre — Sharpe?
Marino — Clayton?
Tarkenton
Moon
Elway — Sharpe at TE?
In the future …
Rodgers — Adams?
Brees — Graham at TE?
Big Ben — Ward?
Rivers — Gates at TE?
E Manning
Wilson
Brian Wolf,
I don’t know if Irving Fryar would’ve made to the Hall of Fame with Dan Marino from 1996 on. The problem is Irving has a history of off the field incidents and Irving didn’t have a 50 reception season before he was 28 years old in 1990. Why Irving Fryar isn’t in Canton right now is due to what he did before he turned 28 years olds and his long history of off the field issues. What I mean by off the field issues is arrests.
Warren Moon had a Hall of Fame Wide Receiver. Warren had Cris Carter although he only played with him for 3 seasons. Warren Moon was with the Vikings from 1994 to 1996. I know that is a small part of Warren’s career, but he did play with a hall of fame Wide Receiver.
Before we presumably migrate over to the other thread….I can definitely get behind Corey’s list of players (living and dead) that need to be inducted – superb list. I’d add a few from the 20s and 30s: Verne Lewellen, Lavvie Dilweg and Ox Emerson. For the living guys, I’d forgotten about Jim Ray Smith – definitely a strong case but seems to be buried. For seniors under 80, I’d add Lemar Parrish for sure. For the “younger” seniors, I wouldn’t give them top priority but they all have convincing resumes. I’d add Mike Kenn, Clay Matthews and now Albert Lewis to that mix. I actually like Jacoby but I may just be a biased Washington fan. Always thought he was more dominant than Grimm.
A few other random thoughts: I’ve come around a bit on Harold Carmichael in the past few years. I don’t think he should have been selected for the centennial class and would’ve taken Branch, Jackson, Shofner and Howton ahead of him….but I don’t think it’s a complete travesty that he’s in the HOF (I think when that class was announced I was just flat out pissed that Carmichael along with players like Covert and Ed Sprinkle were chosen over gems like Gradishar and Wistert).
Sweeney and Tyrer are tough cases for me. Both of them clearly belong, but I also understand the hall not wanting to acknowledge them…but there’s still an issue of rules and fairness. Seems like there’s no objective criteria for exclusion.
Corey , of course I still favor some of the old player’s even if I won’t be actively supporting them in writings.
The best WR’s for Tarkington were Ahmad Rashad and Sammy White.
I’ve never supported Cherry or Walls. Both had a knack for the ball. I kind of understand why a lot of the players that are brought up routinely aren’t in the HOF yet. Cherry had some good years but the AFC was weak in the 1980’s. Trevon Diggs reminds me of Everson Walls. Gets beat too much. Great anticipation and receiving skills. I wouldn’t be mad if he got in. A heck of a lot better pick than Ken Riley!! But wouldn’t be in my HOF. Played for some really bad teams where he wasn’t great in those years. He was a HOVG player who finished nice with the Giants. I thought Dennis Thurman
Joey Browner was a big time hitter. I’m not sure he had a HOF career. It’s close! Jack Tatum was a big time hitter too. Browner reminds me of Steve Atwater with a little less staying ability. I’m on the fence.
Dennis Thurman and Walls had a couple years where they were a nice pair. Also Louis Wright like Lemar Parrish were great cover guys and should be in the HOF. There was know Revis Island publicity back than like now.
Good call HallOfFameFollower …
You’re right about Fryar, but it seems Johnson either wanted to replace him due to age or salary. I really believe Fryar would have stayed and continued to thrive if Johnson wanted him but Jimmy was also sending a message to Dan that the team was going to go younger and emphasize running the ball more, which was not the strength of the offensive line. Even Webb was not the run blocker he should have been because the team dropped back so much …
Moon was the reason Carter became a HOF receiver in my opinion. Pushed him harder than any QB up till that point …
As a Jets fan I’m pleased with Revis and Klecko getting in. I think the other worthy Jets would be Larry Grantham and Nick Mangold. And to a lesser degree Marvin Powell and Art Powell ( yes he was known for being a Raider but had some solid seasons with Titans then now Jets) .
I really think Shaun Alexander deserves enshrinement. Look at his career totals for TDs. He is above a plethora of HOFers and HOFers are above him. Also has a league MVP, at the time single season TD record and was a TD scoring machine for 5-6 years.
Brad, what are your feelings on Mark Gastineau as a Jets fan?
Good insight Brian on Fryar. I don’t know about Webb though. I think he did what he was required to do, well. They did get some decent seasons our of Karim Abdul Jabbar but they really forced the run game which is seen by his low per carry average. Maybe if they had Marshall Faulk Webb looks better. :)
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-dolphinsteamwebb07-story.html
I don’t know how accurate this report is. I’d have to analyze his play and that’s not happening. I think Webb was a little bit of a scapegoat for Miami’s inability to have a good running game. If you remember Bob Kuechenburg’s interview, he described Marino as a selfish QB who wanted to always pass and he had a bad attitude about running the ball. Look at how Griese sacrificed his game for them to win. I bet Griese would have liked to have passed to Warfield more than 29 times on a season. One difference is Don Shula was younger and definitely in charge. He had mellowed some by the time Marino arrived and they did have early success doing it the way Marino wanted to. Running the ball is a mindset of the entire OL and they always knew Dan would bail them out. Jimmy Johnson did try to bring a running mindset. Probably not easy for anyone who has played and made Pro Bowl playing on pass heavy Team for years.
Actually maybe we should look at it as remarkable that Richmond Webb received the accolades he did with a QB who had such a quick release. Can you name another Tackle who made All Pro playing for a pass heavy team that didn’t have a great running game for basically his whole career? On the passing part I think of Orlando Pace. I think Dan Dierdorf might come the closest.
Yes, I was going to mention Cris Carter as the best WR Moon ever had and in the HOF though their time together was shorter. I’m thinking Moon influenced Carter to change his ways on his drinking which was a problem with Philly.
Best QB WR’s
Johnny Unitas – Raymond Berry hof – or John Mackey hof
Bart Starr – Boyd Dowler or Carroll Dale or Max McGee
Sonny Jurgensen – Bobby Mitchell hof or Charley Taylor hof or Tommy McDonald hof
Fran Tarkington – Ahmad Rashad
Len Dawson – Otis Taylor
Joe Namath – Don Maynard hof
Bob Griese – Paul Warfield hof
Roger Staubach – Bob Hayes hof, Mike Ditka hof, Drew Pearson hof or Lance Alworth hof
Terry Bradshaw – Lynn Swann hof or John Stallworth hof
Ken Stabler – Fred Bilindekolf hof or Cliff Branch hof or Dave Casper hof?
Dan Fouts – Charlie Joiner hof or Kellen Winslow hof
Joe Montana – Jerry Rice hof
Dan Marino – Mark Clayton or Mark Duper?
John Elway – Shannon Sharpe hof
Jim Kelly – Andre Reed hof
Steve Young – Jerry Rice hof or Terrell Owens
Troy Aikman – Michael Irving hof
Brett Favre – Sterling Sharpe or Donald Driver
Kurt Warner – Issac Bruce hof
Peyton Manning- Marvin Harrison hof
I knew I forgot about Mark. Damn lol. I think he deserves it too for sure. My order would be Grantham, Gastineau, Mangold,Marvin P,and Art P. After that I don’t think Jets have any other glaring omissions. Glad Winston Hill got in year ago. I do like Mo Lewis and D’Brickashaw Ferguson but I don’t view them HOF good. Looking at the future CJ Mosley and Sauce Gardner could. CJ of course has already 5 Pro Bowls and I think 5 second team all pros. Sauce is only a 1 year vet but down the line he could be another Revis Island.
I hope the committee gets in Randy Gradishar and Ken Anderson soon. They’ve been passed over for a long time. They are very deserving.