Editor’s Note: Paul sent us the bulk of this post some time back…we’ve modified it slightly to adjust for the fact that the nominees were cut down to the semifinalists list announced today…and we will add our predictions in the comments.
With today’s announcement that the 130 modern era nominees has been cut to 25 semi-finalists, we move onto the next step in the process to cut the list to 15 finalists (early January), and finally naming of the class on Selection Saturday when the Hall voters will meet in Tampa on February 6th (hopefully), the day before the Super Bowl, with the official announcement later that evening during the annual NFL Honors show (although news will certainly filter out via social media by 5-6p that day).
The focus of attention will be on another loaded first ballot group of candidates with QB Peyton Manning, CB Charles Woodson, WR Calvin Johnson, and DE Jared Allen. Plus likely returning finalists including S Leroy Butler (2nd year as finalist), OT Tony Boselli (5th year), OG Alan Faneca (6th yr), S John Lynch (8th yr), DT Richard Seymour (3rd yr), and LB Zack Thomas (2nd yr).
Predicting the five modern candidates to be elected can be challenging as always a surprise or two, rules allow for 3-5 but recent elections has seen the maximum of 5 and we can assume same for class of 2021 as voters have plenty of deserving players to get into the Hall eventually. Voters typically are very quiet leading up to and after the selection meeting, making it very difficult to determine any preferences or popular candidates. This year will be no different, in fact perhaps even more challenging as there have been some changes to the committee membership, adding a few new voices and opinions into the 48 member group who will make the final selections via a series of votes from 15 to 10 and finally to 5, who then require 80% from the committee to be elected.
But we can start with some pretty basic assumptions when looking to predict the class of 2021 moderns: QB Payton Manning and CB Charles Woodson will be locks to be elected. Although the term “lock” is often misused by many when considering 1st ballot elections, in the case of these two candidates it is not an overstatement or misjudgment. That leaves 3 remaining slots for modern candidates to be filled by the votes, and one that is very likely to be given to Pittsburg Steeler OG Alan Faneca, a deserving player who has waited too long in the minds of many and will also benefit from the voters support for OL to be added (his profile of 6x first team all pro, 9x pro bowls, first team all decade, and SB make him very qualified). It will be the final 2 slots were the discussions, debate and voting will be interesting and certainly more challenging to predict. But that never stopped any of us from trying before, so let’s have at it.
First, I think perhaps the most controversial and discussed aspect of the class of 2021 elections will be that Detroit Lions WR Calvin “Megatron” Johnson will not be selected. He certainly has the credentials with 3x first team all pro selections, 6x pro bowl and 2010s all decade team (along with NE Patriots OG Logan Mankins he becomes first from that all decade team to appear on PFHOF ballot). But many fans and supporters are missing the reality that the voters do not tend to support 1st ballot elections for WRs and also look to delay elections for short career candidates – Johnson played for nine seasons, hence lacks major career receiving statistics. There will certainly be support in the room for him, he could very well could make the final 10 stage, but I foresee a wait of a few years before election. Also worth noting that WRs are really crowding the ballot with Johnson, plus Torry Holt (2020 finalist), Jimmy Smith, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne (2020 finalist) and others-any more to join in the next few years. Voters will have their hands full in coming elections to sort out a massive logjam at the WR position.
So back to those two other slots (after predicting election of Manning, Woodson and Faneca). One historical trend of voters is addressing the wait for deserving candidates who continue to appear as finalist but await election. I am predicting that they will address this concern for OT Tony Boselli and elect him into this class. And yes I know that two OL elected is a rare occurrence, but given this will be his 5th year on the ballot (and he finished in final 10 each of the last three elections so he has support of voters) will convince voters it’s time to elect the first Jacksonville Jaguar to the Hall. That leaves one final slot, and the 5th modern candidate elected is often the most difficult to predict and this year is no different in that regard. The top contender should be viewed as Lynch, Seymour or Thomas. And one could make the case for any of the three (or Butler for that matter), it will be a real toss up how 48 voters view these candidates and who secures enough support to election. I am usually dismissive of the “home town” influence playing a factor – that the Superbowl teams or location influences the voters when considering modern candidates for the Hall – but in this case I am going to go with former Tampa Bay Buc Safety John Lynch as my prediction. But admit that it could very well be Seymour or Thomas as both are deserving and have their supporters.
So there you have it, my class of 2021 modern predictions of Payton Manning, Charles Woodson, Alan Faneca, Tony Boselli, and John Lynch. Anyone else willing to go out on a limb with their reputation on the line and make a prediction? Leave your thoughts in the comments below.
My prediction:
Peyton Manning
Charles Woodson
Alan Faneca (Finalist in 2020)
LeRoy Butler (Final 10 Finalist in 2020)
Reggie Wayne (Final 10 Finalist in 2020)
They might not want to put Manning & Wayne in together since they were teammates–but it wouldn’t shock me if they did.
Thanks guys for the new thread …
My 2021 Modern Class
Manning
C Woodson
D Woodson
Faneca
Thomas
Predicted 2021 Class
Manning
C Woodson
Johnson
Faneca
Thomas
Like Paul said … Seymour, Lynch/Butler have shots as well.
Though I felt Calvin Johnson retired too soon, I really think his talent, like Moss or Barry Sanders could put him in, as a first ballot.
Since everyone knows how dysfunctional a team the Lions have been, I dont believe the voters will take it out on Johnson. Though he should probably wait, I dont think it will happen. If he gets elected, it will be the shortest career for a first ballot since Butkus, I believe …
Another question is … Can Faneca be the fifth Steeler possibly enshrined to go with the other four come next August ? (Nunn, Shell, Cowher, Polamalu)
Can Zack Thomas join Jimmy Johnson ?
Very surprised interior linemen like DT Williams and OG Mankins didnt make the cut.
Paul predicts Lynch to make the HOF as a safety for 2021 but nine safeties, including seniors have been elected since the Class of 2017 …
Will voters allow another one this class ?
Lynch and Butler are the favorites but though I dont believe a safety gets in for 2021, I am pulling for another Woodson, Cowboy Darren Woodson.
This is my prediction.
Manning
C. Woodson
Faneca
Seymour
Thomas
Everything old is new again with the renewed WR logjam. Holt has had to wait far too long. He was a better player than Bruce (last year’s inductee) or Wayne, although all three are deserving. That said, Johnson was the best of the bunch even if he didn’t do it long enough for some people’s tastes. This could take years to sort out and that doesn’t even include Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, and Anquan Boldin (personal favorite) who are coming or Hines Wars d who is waiting in the semifinalists. Tough, tough nut to crack.
I am Predicting these 5
1. Manning
2. Woodson
3. C. Johnson
4. Faneca
5. Boselli
Thanks for posting new thread guys!
Anyone interested in a prediction contest again this election? We could make it the topic after finalists are announced?
Glad ur back Justin …
It wont take long for Holt and Wayne though having great teammates helped them as well.
I see them getting in together, though a lot of people want Wayne to go in with Manning.
Ward wasnt as fast or flashy, but a better overall receiver helping the Steelers running game.
With Watters, Dillon and Alexander not advancing, could Taylor be the next running back to get in ?
Yes Paul … Robert “The Greatest” needs to come back and defend his prediction title.
Sure looks like voters are most supportive of Taylor over other RBs, just not sure with no first team all pro or a season rushing title how he gets to elected and regarding Holt and Wayne I have no idea how voters will sort out all these WRs and don’t think they make progress with WRs this election, none made final 10 last year
I just wonder if the bar shouldn’t be raised on what a HOF Wide Receiver looks like with a changing game over the last 25-30 years? There are sooooo many really good ones today. They make amazing catches like Lynn Swann did, ALL the time now. lol
Yes, there’s a long jam at WR and only going to get worse in years to come with a pass happy League. That makes me wonder if Isaac Bruce’s recent election was a wise one. Did he really belong with Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens and Randy Moss? I’m also questioning my own strong support for Hines Ward. Maybe by no fault of his own he doesn’t make HOF because to do so would be lowering the standard in a time when we need to raise if anything because of so many good WR’s. The same with Rod Smith which kills me to say? :( Also Terry Holt but at least he has 1 All Pro selection unlike Bruce, Ward and Smith. But of those three Holt seems the most like so many other WR’s of today and doesn’t stand out. Just my opinion. :) Y’all know I don’t support Holt and only favored Bruce slightly more. I have nothing against Bruce. I was happy for him but I want the HOF to be fair and tough.
WR is a strange position to evaluate because we want to rely on our eyes so much. For example no one can convince me Calvin johnson was a better football player than Rod Smith but because he was a freak athlete at 6’5″ much like Harold Carmichael and could catch TD’s he got HUGE recognition. I certainly don’t think he was 3 AP’s and 3 PB’s better than Smith. I don’t expect anyone to agree. lol Probably near blasphemy to go against Megatron.
I’m Just trying to stir the pot and start conversation. I guess I should be glad a 6′ Isaac Bruce made HOF because shorter players usually get short shrifted when the accolades are passed around IMO. No pun intended. lol We’ll see what happens when 5’9″ Steve Smith comes along or Tyreek Hill comes at 5’10” a few years after him. i don’t expect Smith to stand passively by if he’s passed over. He will speak out! :)
Good points TonyP …
You can have all the talent in the world but if youre injury prone or dont have the production to match, not to mention, the work ethic, while buying into the team concept, you probably wont make the HOF.
Not every player will have the talent of a Moss or Megatron but did they get the most out of their talent ?
I felt Steve Smith, Drew Pearson, Hines Ward, Issac Bruce and others did.
Remember, Bruce like Henry Ellard, had mediocre QBs before hitting it big with Warner and Bulger. He to me, was more a team player than a Moss or Owens. I will never forget the sight of the great Randy Moss with the Titans and Vikings with Favre, jogging around the field, like he was too good or privileged to bother with full speed pass patterns. Maybe his age or running out of gas was a factor because BOTH teams cut him, before he got serious with the 49ers.
Rod Smith had lots of talent but like Owens, could drop critical passes, though, with a rocket arm like Elway’s, it’s understandable.
Then there is Sterling Sharpe. With short career Boselli, getting closer to induction, I cant figure out for the life of me why a more high profile player like Sharpe couldnt make a final list ?
Despite his career ending neck injury, he had as much talent and production as anyone on this semifinal list …
I’m hoping in the 5 to 6 years Sterling Sharpe will get a nomination from the Senior Committee
I did commentary recently about the PFHOF voters perhaps overlooking great all-purpose backs with great pass receiving yardage, in favor of strictly running yardage. These comments were on Talkoffamenetwork/SI//Maven, in regards to total yardage backs that had more scrimmage yards than semifinalist Fred Taylor, the only RB to make the list.
Top 15 All-Time Receiving Yardage RBs
Marshall Faulk … 6875 yrds … HOF
Larry Centers … 6797 yrds … Pass catching FB
Ronnie Harmon … 6076 yrds … 3rd down specialist
Eric Metcalf … 5572 yrds … Split RB/WR career equally
Marcus Allen … 5411 yrds … HOF
Tiki Barber … 5183 yrds
Roger Craig … 4991 yrds
Herschel Walker … 4859 yrds
Darren Sproles … 4840 … 3rd down specialist
Ladainian Tomlinson … 4772 … HOF
Matt Forte … 4672 yrds
John L Williams … 4656 … Pass catch FB
Earnest Byner … 4605 yrds
Walter Payton … 4538 yrds … HOF
Other great high scrimmage yard backs with over 4000 yrds receiving, are Ricky Watters, Thurman Thomas and Warrick Dunn.
Though Fred Taylor is deserving, along with Shaun Alexander … Barber has the highest scrimmage yard totals with Dunn next, followed by Steven Jackson and Ricky Watters amongst eligible backs …
Warrick Dunn is also the smallest at less than 5’9 180 lbs … remarkable
I apologize …
4) Keith Byars … 5661 yrds … Pass catch FB
behind Harmon and before Metcalf …
A few thoughts on the semifinalist list:
1. Really excited to see Allen and Bennett finally make the semifinalist round! I’d say that their chances of advancing to the finalist round this year are very slim, but I’m hoping they can start building some momentum before their modern eligibility runs out.
2. Really disappointed to see Watters not advance this time, especially since Taylor advanced. I get that with Taylor there is a perception of unreached potential due to injuries, and that he likely got snubbed a couple of times for the Pro Bowl, but I can’t wrap my head around a 1-time Pro Bowler with 1 2nd-team All-Pro nod making the hall of fame even if he finished high on the all-time rushing list.
Watters’ overall credentials are strong with 5 Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl ring, good receiving stats and a solid finish on the all-time rushing list (he retired 13th all-time in rushing which was higher than Taylor, who finished his career in 15th). With James getting inducted last year, he’s now the clear best candidate out of the RBs in the modern-era pool in my opinion (yes, even more so than Barber and Alexander, who I would place 2nd and 3rd). Like Bennett and Allen, he’s only got a few more years in the modern-era pool, so I’m hoping he gets back onto the semifinalist list next year, so that he can have a shot at getting in before his modern eligibility runs out.
3. Willie Anderson is a nice surprise, as he is widely considered one of the best RTs of the past 30 or so years. I think it would really take a strong campaign to get him over the top though. I would have rather seen Wisniewski advance instead, as I feel like he could have been a candidate to have a Zach Thomas-like rise from afterthought to strong finalist contender within a couple of years.
4. Rodney Harrison’s inclusion on the list feels like such a waste. He’s the 4th best safety by a wide margin, and will probably syphon some votes from Woodson that could prevent him from making the finalist round. I would have rather seen someone at another position make it through like Watters, Coates, O’Neal or Neil Smith that might have stood a chance at making it to the next round, and wouldn’t have necessarily split votes with another worthy candidate.
5. I’m surprised to see Kevin Williams and Logan Mankins miss the cut. They might have a better chance next year with only Ware and Andre Johnson looking like strong bets for the semifinalist round among the newcomers. They’re both deserving of the Hall of Fame, so I’m hoping they don’t have a long wait to get to even the semi-finalist round.
6. I think Calvin Johnson is a pretty good bet to make the finalist round, but I would have a really big issue with him being a first-ballot inductee. While I think he has better credentials than Sterling Sharpe, there isn’t THAT much separating them, so I would heavily question why one player would be a first-ballot hall of famer and the other couldn’t even make it to the semifinalist round in his 20 years of eligibility. I would personally rather see Holt get in first given his longer wait, and wouldn’t have a problem with Calvin Johnson sitting on the ballot for a few years. It could get very interesting if Calvin and Andre Johnson, Holt, Wayne and Ward are all on the semifinalist ballot next year (I know a lot of people on here like Steve Smith, but he feels like a longshot to me given the current logjam).
When I first watched Calvin Johnson come into the league for Detroit, he reminded me a lot of former Lion Herman Moore, though faster. Both players careers are similiar.
Both players were three time All-Pros with Johnson having six Pro Bowls to Moore’s four.
While Johnson retired after his ninth season, Moore got hurt in his ninth season and just hung on, his final three seasons.
Johnson had better yardage and TD numbers but Moore didnt have a consistent, strong armed QB like Stafford though. Moore also shared in catches with other good Lions receivers, while Megatron was the focal point.
Moore is basically forgotten while Johnson will make the HOF eventually, if not this election.
Its never easy playing for a Detroit Lions team.
I enjoy y’all’s points.
My take on Calvin Johnson was he an athletic freak with his combination of size and speed. He was a phenomenal weapon for a QB that resulted in many TD’s and big plays. Many of his catches were of passes thrown in the area and with his size advantage he could adjust better than the smaller defenders. People sure hyped him up. While good, I for one am more impressed with a 5’9″ WR like a Duper or Clayton routinely doing the same thing.
No doubt Johnson was a great catcher of the ball but he was not a great WR in the sense of having the skill other great ones had. He wasn’t a great route runner, sideline receiver or a very elusive runner other than his straight line speed. I think Plaxico Burress who had the same frame was a more skilled WR. I think Johnson had so much natural gift that he didn’t have to work hard and probably didn’t as much as he could of. That’s just a hunch. He ended up retiring fairly young at 30 because he didn’t seem to have the fire to continue. He had plenty of fire from the joints he smoked after every game throughout his career. Wrong kind of fire. LOL
Mankins comes up a little short of HOF for me. He’ll maybe get in as a Senior. Guards require many years at the top of their position. One AP reminds me of Bob Keuchenberg and we see where that’s gotten him. Maybe Mankins All Team 2010’s will get him in one day. I thought he had a better shot if he could of finished with New England.
I think Tiki Barber is the top HOF RB prospect. Just can’t deny the numbers. They are special! He never seemed to do never enough get New York Media behind him like you would think someone as productive as him would. Must of been his personality and or style of runner.
What Tiki Barber numbers are special?
Barber definitely finished his career better than he started it …
Its hard to believe he had only one thousand yrd season his first five but sharing the ball with Dayne-a bust, and fumbling problems contributed.
Still, special or not, any back with over 15,000 scrimmage yards, has done a good job, though for many years, his numbers seemed quiet or almost garbage time to me, until Manning became a better QB.
Total scrimmage yards and total combined yards have always been odd stats especially when it has come to voters and hall elections. Consistently since first elections through today, voters have never elected a players based on those accomplishments, apparently really never considering the many great players who topped those lists via rushing, receiving and returns. RBs have been looked at in terms of rushing yards and WRs for receptions. Given the flexibility and options a receiving RB gives an offense it hasn’t seemed to translate into greatness at least in terms of election of the Hall, leaving many not even considered
You guys don’t see Calvin Johnson the same way I do. I think he is a top 10 WR of All-time. Clayton and Duper were very good receivers, but you could cover them. Plus they had Dan Marino throwing to them. Calvin Johnson was “open,” even when he was covered. He had Stafford at the end of his career, but go ahead and try to name the other guys? Herman Moore was an excellent receiver and falls just short of a Harold Carmichael or John Stallworth for me.
Tiki has a HOF case but in the end I believe he falls just short. I like Dillon, Watters and even Taylor a little better. To me it is an eye test thing more than a stat thing.
Mankins is almost exactly like Kuechenberg but that “all-decade” might get him over the top before it ever gets to a senior committee.
Youre probably right Paul, but scrimmage/all purpose yardage did help at least three running backs make the HOF in my opinion.
Floyd Little retired in 1975 with barely more running yards than Don Perkins, who retired in 1968 and was fifth on the All-time rushing list at that time. I believe Little’s all purpose yardage with special teams enabled him to get elected, though he is not a popular choice.
Marcus Allen scored many TDs, and has a ring but he played so long, his scrimmage yards were awesome when he retired but in 17 seasons, he only had three 1000 yrd rushing seasons.
Some people compare Frank Gore to Allen in terms of pedestrian running seasons that compiled over time, but as an all purpose back, there is no denying the greatness of Allen. Scrimmage yards and TDs scored, was his bread and butter …
Gale Sayers was the ultimate eye-test player, who ran and scored on spectacular plays, not just running or receiving but on special teams as well. His special teams yardage and average no doubt, helped him get elected despite a short career.
So, maybe the voters are overlooking other all purpose backs like Craig, Walker, Timmy Brown, Watters, Ellard, Brooks and Mitchell but over time, some of these players will get their due.
It will be interesting when Steve Smith comes along because we know he wont be first ballot but I would take him over Wayne and Holt who had better QBs, but didnt have the special team numbers that Smith had.
Like everyone is saying, the WR issue will get more dicey, especially with Andre Johnson and Boldin coming up …
My Ranking of current-future eligible WRs
Ellard (struggling)
Ward
C Johnson
Smith (soon)
Wayne
Boldin (soon)
Holt
Mason/A Johnson
Floyd Little – no one can explain that senior candidate selection (I certainly can’t), who knows why but I doubt all purpose yards was the reason
Marcus Allen scored many TDs, and has a ring — BINGO
Gale Sayers- 5x first team all pro at RB, his KR was at best a minor factor
If we really thought voters ever cared much about all purpose or total combined yards we would have seen more discussion by voters or semi-finalists/finalists over the years in Eric Metcalf, Larry Centers, Brian Mitchell, Hershel Walker, Tiki Barber, Roger Craig, and a long list of others.
I am not debating whether total combined yards or all purpose yards should be considered by voters, only that during decades of voting, they never really have not been a factor, and it shows by election results
Paul, if only one offensive lineman could get elected this 2021 …
Boselli or Faneca ?
Paul, the “only” Barber numbers that I was thinking about were the yards per carry. He has other impressive totals but it’s the 4.7 ypc over 10 years for a RB and the multiple 5.0+ seasons that equals rare air for me. In fact he barely had one season below 4.5 which is better than most. I’ve looked at too many career stat lines to not take notice. I don’t think he had any HOF Offensive Linemen blocking for him?
Bill, I agree Calvin Johnson was a greater weapon than Duper, Clayton or many WR’s. I’m just not as impressed because it came easier to him. I’m not sure his results blow others out of the water despite being “the guy”.
This may be being too hard on Calvin Johnson but it’s hard to imagine a Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss etc Team going winless 0-16. Seems like if he was so great he could of been the difference in one game. He was on a Team that lost 32 of 34 games and his game wilted.
I’d absolutely put Andre Johnson in before Calvin. He had even less at QB to work with over his career IMO. I’d also take Andre slightly over CJ if I was Drafting. Imagine a player of the talent of Andre Johnson with a Patriots or 80’s 49ers Team. Haha
Megatron played 3 full seasons which isn’t all that impressive. Maybe I’d put Mark Clayton into HOF before too. lol He has a higher AV and had to split time with Duper and didn’t quit early. I went back and looked at the famous Chicago at Miami game thinking Clayton had a big time game because his TD is well remembered. But it was Nat Moore with two TD’s and Mark Duper who had the 100 yd receiving game. Clayton only had 5 catches for 88 yds and a TD. Just think what those guys would do today in the Kansas City Offense. :O !!! Pat Mahomes and Company make Marino’s Offense look JV.
All said, Calvin Johnson does belong in the HOF. I just don’t think he was as shiny as most. :)
Andre Johnson was definitely big and talented like Megatron, with a little less speed but played on a team that struggled like the Lions.
The only thing that goes against him is the same thing that hurts Torry Holt in my opinion … lower TD numbers but with the Texans, that could fall on the QBs as well.
Brian, I’m not refuting comment about Rod Smith dropping balls but don’t know how to qualify. They only recently started to keep the stat. I can only look at his receptions versus targets and his percentage appears slightly above some other greats but that stat probably means little. I personally can’t remember many WR’s dropping balls consistently or they wouldn’t have a job. WR like other positions have become so much more proficient than days gone by. I wish I could verify because that would be good to know in evaluating for HOF. Do you know of any source of info that would talk about. Maybe they talk about his drops on other websites?
To me Andre Johnson had 1st ballot HOF skill. His career didn’t quite get the shine it deserved playing for Houston. Plus he was such a non deva understated personality. He was best talent coming out of college IMO and the best Pro. His career might not be 1st ballot though but I don’t see any others either.
Reggie Wayne made up ground and comes very close to his Hurricane Brother with career value. It helped greatly playing for Peyton Manning. Calvin Johnson with his nickname Megatron who captured the national media comes up just short with career though if he would of continued he would of topped most likely though his game had dropped off significantly.
I’ve reviewed and rate in order HOF deserving WR’s :
Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Calvin Johnson
Drew Pearson and Cliff Branch tie
Henry Ellard
Hines Ward and Steve Smith tie
Gary Clark
MarK Clayton
Chad Johnson
Harold Jackson “would be Charlie Joiner like – has accolades”
Wes Welker ” probably not enough years at peak but has chance”
I’d be OK with any of these players.
Many other HOVG but all they all come up short to me. .Closest are: Derrick Mason, Herman Moore, Wes Chandler, Andre Rison Roddy White and Donald Driver.
Brian I give Faneca a 90% chance of election, probably more like 50/50 for Boselli only because 2 OL elected among 5 moderns is rare
Evaluating WRs on ballot for 2022 would be great topic for our “off season” next spring and summer, lots to consider and likely lots of differing opinions, would be fun!
No biggie TonyP …
You know I love stirring the pot with good debate ! The drops I am talking about with Rod Smith were early in his career, getting used to John Elways strong arm. I remember him dropping passes against the Steelers in a loss in 1997, that allowed the Chiefs to win the division but he very well could have been MVP in the 98/99 SB as well. Gary Clark had drops but was dynamic on champion teams.
Every receiver drops passes, you just dont want to be defined by them like Terrell Owens … haha … I know he was a great talent.
Looking at the senior receivers, Harold Jackson and Billy Howton were huge snubs that were overlooked like Jim Benton of the Rams in the 1940s. I think Cliff Branch will get elected after Gradishar, Wistert and hopefully, Howley. Despite being 3rd all-time in receiving yards when he retired, it looks like Henry Ellard will have to wait awhile.
Sorry Paul, I’m so off topic.
Brian, good point on Andre’s lack of TD’s. That alone probably keeps him from being a 1st ballot guy. Andre Johnson lost a few of his TD’s to RB Arian Foster who had a real nose for the goal line when he was healthy. The Texans had a pretty good thing for a year or two but had the misfortune of running into Tom Brady and Patriots.
The players who I believe will be chosen for HOF this year are:
QB Peyton Manning
CB Charles Woodson
DE Richard Seymour
S Darren Woodson
WR Reggie Wayne
The 25 2021 HOF Semi-Finalists
(My NO’s are as a modern selection.)
CB Eric Allen (1988-1994 Philadelphia Eagles, 1995-1997 New Orleans Saints, 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders): 54 INT (8 TD), 6-time Pro Bowler with Eagles (5) and Saints (1).
DE Jared Allen (2004-2007 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-2015 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers): 136.0 sacks, 4 career safeties (T-most all-time), 22.0 sacks in 2011 (T-2nd all-time), 1 of 7 players to lead NFL in sacks in a season twice, 4-time First Team All-Pro.
NO – T Willie Anderson (1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens): Started 184 of 195 games played in career, 4-time Pro Bowler, 3-time First Team All-Pro.
CB/S Ronde Barber (1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers): Only player in NFL history with 40+ interceptions & 25+ sacks, NFL All-Decade Team of the 2000s, won Super Bowl XXXVII with Buccaneers.
NO- LB Cornelius Bennett (1987-1995 Buffalo Bills, 1996-98 Atlanta Falcons, 1999-2000 Indianapolis Colts): 71.5 sacks, 7 INT (1 TD), 27 fumble recoveries, 5-time Pro Bowler with Bills, played in 5 Super Bowls with Bills (XXV, XXVI, XXVII, XXVIII) and Falcons (XXXIII), All-Decade Team of the 1990s.
NO- T Tony Boselli (1995-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars): NFL All-Decade Team of the 1990s, 3-time First Team All-Pro.
NO- S LeRoy Butler (1990-2001 Green Bay Packers): 38 career interceptions, only player in NFL history with 3+ interceptions & 3+ sacks in 3 straight seasons, NFL All-Decade Team of the 1990s, won Super Bowl XXXI with Packers.
G Alan Faneca (1998-2007 Pittsburgh Steelers, 2008-2009 New York Jets, 2010 Arizona Cardinals): NFL All-Decade Team of the 2000s, 6-time First Team All-Pro, won Super Bowl XL with Steelers.
NO- S Rodney Harrison (1994-2002 San Diego Chargers, 2003-2008 New England Patriots): 34 INT, 30.5 sacks, 1 of 2 players in NFL history in the 30/30 club (Ray Lewis), played in 4 Super Bowls, won Super Bowls XXXVIII and XXXIX with Patriots.
NO- WR Torry Holt (1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars): 13,382 receiving yards, 920 receptions, led NFL in receiving yards in 2000 & 2003, 1 of 5 players with multiple 1,600 receiving yard seasons, NFL All-Decade Team of the 2000s, won Super Bowl XXXIV with Rams.
WR Calvin Johnson (2007-2015 Detroit Lions): 1,964 receiving yards in 2012 (most all-time), 86.1 career receiving YPG (2nd all-time), All-Decade Team of 2010s, 3-time First Team All-Pro.
S John Lynch (1993-2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2004-2007 Denver Broncos): 26 career interceptions, 16 career forced fumbles, 2-time First Team All-Pro, won Super Bowl XXXVII with Buccaneers.
QB Peyton Manning (1998-2011 Indianapolis Colts, 2012-2015 Denver Broncos): 200 career wins including playoffs (2nd all-time), 539 career pass TD (3rd all-time), 71,940 pass yds (3rd all-time), 5,477 pass yds in 2013(most all-time), 55 pass TD in 2013 (most all-time), 14-time Pro Bowler (T-most all-time), 7-time First Team All-Pro, won Super Bowl XLI with Colts & Super Bowl 50 with Broncos (only QB to win Super Bowl with multiple franchises).
NO- LB Clay Matthews (1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-1996 Atlanta Falcons): 278 career games, Browns all-time sacks leader (62.0), 2nd-most games played (232) in Browns franchise history.
NO- LB Sam Mills (1986-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-1997 Carolina Panthers): 20.5 career sacks, 11 career interceptions, 1996 First Team All-Pro.
DE/DT Richard Seymour (2001-2008 New England Patriots, 2009-2012 Oakland Raiders): NFL All-Decade Team of the 2000s, 3-time Super Bowl champion with Patriots (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX).
NO- ST/WR Steve Tasker (1985-1986 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills): 7-time Pro Bowl selection, 2,159 career all-purpose yards.
NO_ RB Fred Taylor (1998-2008 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2009-2010 New England Patriots): 11,695 rushing yards (17th all-time), 7 seasons with 1,100+ rushing yards (T-6th most all-time), led NFL in rush YPG in 2000 (107.6).
LB Zach Thomas (1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys): 17 career interceptions, 20.3 career sacks, 4 career INT return TD, 184 career games, NFL All-Decade Team of the 2000s.
WR Hines Ward (1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers): 1,000 receptions, 12,083 receiving yards, 85 receiving TD, Steelers franchise leader in receptions, receiving yards & receiving TD, won 2 Super Bowls with Steelers (XL, XLIII).
WR Reggie Wayne (2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts): 1,070 receptions (10th all-time), 14,345 receiving yards (10th all-time), led NFL with 1,510 receiving yards in 2007, 5th-most receiving yards for a single franchise in NFL history, 7 straight 1,000+ receiving yard seasons (T-6th longest streak in NFL history), won Super Bowl XLI with Colts.
NO- LB Patrick Willis (2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers): 2007 AP Defensive Rookie of the Year, led NFL in tackles in 2007 (174) & 2009 (152), 950 career tackles, 20.5 career sacks, 52 TFL, 8 career interceptions in 112 games (all starts).
CB/S Charles Woodson (1998-2005, 2013-2015 Oakland Raiders, 2006-2012 Green Bay Packers): 13 defensive TD (most all-time), 11 INT return TD (T-2nd all-time), 1 of 3 player in NFL history with 25+ INT with 2 different franchises, 2009 NFL Defensive Player of the Year, 3-time First Team All-Pro, All-Decade team of 2000s, won Super Bowl XLV with Packers.
S Darren Woodson (1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys): 23 career interceptions, won 3 Super Bowls with Cowboys (XXVII, XXVIII, XXX).
NO- DT Bryant Young (1994-2007 San Francisco 49ers): 89.5 career sacks (most in 49ers history), 208 career played, 1999 Comeback Player of the Year, NFL All-Decade Team of the 1990s, won Super Bowl XXIX with 49ers.
I’m not sure about Darren Woodson now. Stats are not impressive but I remember him as such a hard and good tackler like a John Lynch. I think I’d go with Lynch over Woodson for this year. Been saying he should get in for several years now.
Not sure if Woodson makes it a modern player. I wouldn’t mind seeing Eric Allen in the HOF soon. He was such a good cover guy and still managed 54 ints despite QB’s throwing away from him. Hard to get the AP selection when Dion Sanders and Rod Woodson are in the League. LOL
Brian Wolf and TonyP. I noticed that both of you seem to hold Torry Holt in a pretty low regard.
Just curious as to why you don’t see him as being Hall Of Fame worthy?
I think between his counting stats, 7 Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl ring and a completely deserving All Decade team nod, he pretty much ticks all the boxes that you would be looking for in a Hall of Famer. His receiving TD numbers aren’t absolutely elite (74) but given his shorter career (11 years) they don’t seem like the same detriment as they would be for someone like Andre Johnson (70) or Henry Ellard (65).
Reggie Wayne and him have very similar career profiles with Holt’s all decade team mostly offsetting Wayne’s better counting stats. They both played the bulk of their careers with another Hall of Fame receiver, and Wayne benefitted from elite QB play for basically his entire career.
I would think that if you supported one, you would support the other. Just my 2 cents.
I have no problem with Holt, BSLO …
He had a great career and does check all the boxes but I view him and Wayne as WR’s who could wait awhile for election because they both had HOF QBs, as well as HOF go-to receiving teammates, not to mention, coaches who designed great offenses.
In Holt’s case, you already have Pace, Warner, Bruce and Faulk in the HOF, so though he is still waiting, I believe other receivers should get in next, like Ellard, Ward or C Johnson, who didnt have the luxury of blending into great offenses and were their teams #1 receiving option …
Same with Wayne … he shined after Harrison got hurt in 07 but once again, he blended in with other great HOF players like Manning, James, Saturday(eventually) and others like Glenn, who has a case and a TE/receiver like Clark. On defense, Bob Sanders could have been a HOF player had he stayed healthy …
Thats my problem with the Colts and the Rams … They both went to multiple SB’s but despite all the HOF players, only won a single championship to show for it. Of course postseason performance will help both of these players get elected.
Though people dont agree, its the four SB’s that enable a wide receiver tandem like Swann and Stallworth to make the HOF. Its very rare for tandems to get in, which is why Branch/Biletnikoff, Dowler/Dale, Maynard/Sauer, Jackson/Morgan, Duper/Clayton, Monk/Clark, Joiner/Chandler and others dont … some great receivers cancel their teammates out but fortunately for Holt and Wayne, they played great, overlapping their great teammates.
With Bulger replacing Warner, their wasnt a dropoff in quality, which allowed Holt to thrive but I was disappointed that Wayne couldnt continue with Brady and the Pats.
Maybe I expect too much from older receivers running out of gas but you would think Wayne and Chad Johnson would work their ass off to catch passes from Tom Brady and try to get another SB. I remember when Johnson played in the SB against the Giants and was disappointed he didnt do more in the game they lost.
Though I like Holt and Wayne, were they more deserving than Rison, Chad Johnson or Derrick Mason ?
To me, Warfield, Harrison, Chad Johnson and Rison were the quickest wideouts I ever saw who could get by anyone in the blink of an eye. Had Rison stayed with Atlanta, or Ricky Watters stayed with SF, they would both already be in the HOF but free agency changed the trajectory of alot of good to great players. Though he got a championship with Favre and GB, free agency hurt Rison and Mason with the Titans became McNair’s go-to receiver after years of Frank Wychek.
Mason was quick without great speed but fearless over the middle for the Titans and Ravens and was great on special teams as well. Though slight in frame, he was tough like Keenan McCardell, another underrated receiver nobody talks about, who has a championship as well.
It’s simple BLSO, the more elusive, the more I like the WR, lol unless they have something they can really hang their hat on like route running to the nth degree like a Raymond Berry, Paul Warfield or Jerry Rice or the sideline artistry of a Drew Pearson or Cris Carter or being a extraordinary deep threats like a James Lofton, Lance Alworth. Bob Hayes or Cliff Branch to name a few. Actually Warfield, Rice and Moss were excellent in all fazes, that’s why they were 1st ballot HOFers. We could argue if Terrell Owens deserved it. I suspect if “just” evaluated on talent he might. IMO the next deserving 1st ballot HOF WR would be Larry Fitzgerald. Although I don’t think he quite measures up in those particular skills, he likely is the best pass catcher EVER. I’d put him in the category of Steve Largent and Raymond Berry the only other 1st ballot HOF WR’s if I’m correct. Three of the best Pro’s ever too, IMO. :)
About Torry Holt, he did everything very well but he barely stands out as HOF caliber to me and should wait 5-10 years longer IMO. Too me his film, what I can find, looks fairly unspectacular. I suppose his clutch receiving was the thing that made him stand for some thus the name “big game” . He was also fast. He racked up good production playing for some of the best Offenses with RB’s Faulk and Steven Jackson. He played his role well.
It’s a WR game now and shouldn’t be easy to make HOF. You should have to really standout. It shouldn’t be enough to have X numbers anymore like a Charlie Joiner.
I thought Jimmy Smith was a better WR than Holt but not quite the career stats. I thought Isaac Bruce was a better player on his own team and IMO he could of waited longer. Torry Holt was really good with the media and likable too which probably helps. Holt will be in the HOF one day and probably deserves it, just not on my priority list to support. I would push for Calvin Johnson before Holt.
Besides maybe TonyP, does anyone think Jared Allen might get elected first ballot ?
Its not far fetched after Jason Taylor did it.
I think that for whatever reason, there is a sentiment that Holt was a product of the players around him, and the offense he was in. It no doubt helped his production, but wouldn’t it also be fair to say that the players around him were elevated by his play?
Owens spent his entire career with Pro Bowl level QBs, Moss had basically every elite season of his career with either a hall of fame WR (Carter), or a hall of fame QB (Brady), Harrison and Wayne played on offense with multiple hall of fame players, so did Ward. I don’t think it makes them less deserving of the Hall of Fame, it just makes them fortunate to play on great teams. Teams that were elevated by their play.
Even if he played in an offense that was pass heavy, he nonetheless put up some pretty obscene stats for his era. The 19.9 yards per catch on 82 receptions that he put up in 2000 was unparalleled by any starting receiver in that time period. He also had one of the most dominating 8 year stretches of any receiver in NFL history from 2000 to 2007. During those 8 years he AVERAGED 94 catches and 1,385 yards per season and had 6 straight seasons of over 1,300 receiving yards, which is something that I believe only Julio Jones has matched. His 77.4 receiving yards per game are still 7th all time. The only retired receiver ahead of him is Calvin Johnson.
I would say that even in an era of elite receiver play, those are absolutely stats that stand out. The hall of fame is meant to recognize outstanding accomplishments, not outstanding talent. I really don’t know if Holt was more talented than Rison or McCardell or Ellard or Mason or Chad Johnson or Jimmy Smith, but I think it would be a hard sell to say they accomplished more than Holt did.
I was fine with him waiting for a bit, but with him now in his 7th year of eligibility, I think he’s waited long enough. I definitely would like to see him get in before Wayne, and as great as Calvin Johnson was, I think there are enough holes in his accomplishments that he shouldn’t necessarily jump ahead the rest of the WR queue.
I don’t think that Allen makes it in this year. I think that there are too many elite holdovers on the ballot this time around with Faneca and Lynch in particular being way overdue for induction. Couple that with Allen being at best the 3rd best first year eligible player make it an uphill climb. Taylor is probably the floor for first ballot inductees, and I would put Allen’s career accomplishments a notch below his.
He is in a bit of a bad position with Ware, Freeney and Peppers becoming eligible over the next few years. He could be in for a 5 to 7 year wait.
Good calls BSLO …
Allen was a tenacious pass rusher but I believe Ware will get in first ballot over Freeney and maybe, Peppers as well. His SB performance against Carolina, after putting heat on Brady in the AFC Champ game was icing on the cake. I actually felt he could have kept playing, like Freeney because both were in great shape for situational play. If Allen can get in before Ware or Freeney, he deserves credit but we will see.
Holt did have great stats but even at seven years waiting, its a crowded, competitive field that has to slowly sort out and right now wide receivers have taken a backseat to safeties but that could change again. I think Zack Thomas will be the next linebacker elected.
I guess we won’t need the special thread next year on the WRs after all since we already got it going here
I tried to steer away from Paul. LOL
I hear what you’re saying BSLO. You made a good case for Torry Holt.
“The hall of fame is meant to recognize outstanding accomplishments, not outstanding talent.”
I think the Selection Members probably considers both. And if a player clearly passes the eye test the evaluator will accept a little less outstanding accomplishment and vise versa. At least that’s the way it appears.
Off the top of my head an example of that is Lynn Swann a 1/3 with a relatively short career and underwhelming numbers. I’m thinking his talent or eye test must of been the deciding factor. I’d say the eye test outweighed accomplishment with Isaac Bruce though not by much. Also not through the traditional process but Jimbo Covert’s selection must of relied much more on outstanding talent.
That said I don’t think there are many cases where it’s clear cut that talent outweighs outstanding accomplishment. Usually both go hand in hand. I suppose we could get into a debate on what is “outstanding accomplishment and isn’t. LOL!! Should someone picking you for an All Decade Team be highly valued? I don’t think necessarily but some will say it is a strong indicator.
Haha … I tried to steer the conversation towards pass rushers and the chance that Jared Allen could get in first ballot.
To be honest, I dont know all the upcoming modern players for the next five classes but could probably find out from other threads, unless anyone would like to share, say 2022-2026 ?
Guys, whatever you would like to post or topics to run with is fine, any and all PFHOF debate is good and better than none!
Here is future 1st ballot I have (it’s not ALL retired players, just those likely to get some Hall talk, and possible I missed some):
2022: Demarcus Ware*, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin,Steve Smith, Tony Romo, Devin Hester
2023: Joe Thomas*, Dwight Freeney*, Darrelle Revis, James Harrison
2024: Julius Peppers*, Antonio Gates*
2025: Luke Kuechly*, Marshawn Lynch, Eli Manning, Marshal Yanda, Travis Frederick, Darren Sproles, Eric Weddle, Terrell Suggs, Adam Vinatieri
*strong chance at 1st ballot election
2026: ?? will not know until off season and those who played in 2020 make retirement decision, but boy what if its Brady, Brees and BenR-all at the same time???? Others could include Rod Gronkowski, Jason Witten, Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore, Larry Fitzgerald, Philip Rivers
Great job Paul … Thanks
Not to look ahead too much but these guys I would put in first ballot
My First ballot choices 2021-2025
2021
Manning
Woodson
2022
Ware
2023
Thomas
Freeney and Revis are close but no cigar
2024
Gates
Peppers
2025
No one
I normally would never put a TE on first ballot unless he was an outstanding blocker-receiver like Witten or Gronk but with Gonzalez being the first elected, I have no problem going with Gates, though I was hoping Witten would have gotten that honor.
Luke Kuechly will be very interesting case and discussion with DROY, DPOY, 5x all pro and all decade but that short career
Freeney is another interesting case with 18th career sacks, multiple first team all pro, SB, all decade team
And I am not as high as some are on first ballot chances for Revis but he does have the SB, all pros and all decade team, I just think his peak was too short and career sort of ended on slow decline
Oops to be clear, Revis will get in, my assessment was for 1st ballot chances
Since 1990 only two classes (1992, 2012) did not have at least one 1st ballot elected, perhaps 2025 will be next?
It will be close with Freeney, Revis, Gates and Kuechly … Freeney had the rush like Ware but got trapped, ran on alot as well but Dungy wanted his fast linebackers to make the tackles.
Youre right Paul on Revis, just declined too much with a mercenary attitude …
Peppers is fine with me but some people I know felt he played when he wanted and could have done more but thats debatable.
If Willis has to wait, I feel Kuechly should as well …
To be honest, there is a good chance that the 2022 class could go without a first ballot selection.
Though Ware was a great pass rusher, the Cowboys flopped him from LB to DE and he could be undersized against running attacks, though I remember him holding his own.
Cowboys fans were also frustrated because nobody could understand why a team with Ware, Romo, Witten, T.O and Dez Bryant couldnt win a championship, though I felt like certain defenders on the team didnt live up to their draft status or free agent status, especially in the secondary …
There was alot of debate about why Ware didnt retire a Cowboy but it just seemed like Ware and the team decided to just part ways, where he could go to a more contending team like the Broncos with Manning.
Had he not played well and won with the Broncos, there is no way he would be discussed as a first ballot candidate but his great postseason run, still stays in many people’s minds, though Newton made it easier in the SB by not running more and standing too long in the pocket …
If youre out there Rasputin or Bachslunch, please weigh-in on your thoughts as well.
I suppose there is a chance that Demarcus Ware would not be first ballot in 2022, but his profile of 4/(3)/9/all decade/SB/2x season sacks leader/9th al time sacks (including 20 sack season and 8 seasons of 10+ sacks in 12 yr career), seems to tick off most of the boxes voters look at, plus he has no other serious contender for 1st ballot. His salary, cap hit and recent injuries is why Dallas let him go, and most fans agreed at the time as it was very possible his peak years were past, of course now in hindsight its easy to say they should have keep him as still had a few good seasons left.
Brian, I agree on Willis and Kuechly. I heard that too about Peppers in the middle of his career but I think he buckled down and finished up with very respected career. Looking at Peppers sack total and physical attributes one does wonder if he did leave a few sacks out there. But like JJ Watt I suspect he was double and tripled teamed often. I have no problem if he’s a 1st Ballot guy along with Ware and hopefully Jared Allen.
Freeney!! I concur with you on your critique Brian. A flashy one note player if there ever was one. :) He was only involved in 2.2 tackles a game (let that sink in!) over his 157 games as a starter. Put him on the lower profile team than Peyton Manning’s and I doubt he gets nearly as much credit. I think he should wait at least as long as Seymour what ever that is or maybe go in as a Senior.
The only thing I’ll give Freeney credit for succeeding as a sack artist at his smaller size of 6’1″ 268 lbs.. But with his speed and quickness only 2 tackles which includes sacks is not HOF great material. Only gets to HOVG in book.
There I go using my name again!. Freeney lovers please don’t send me mail. Lol !!
Youre right TonyP but with his great quickness and low center of gravity, he was always swallowing up blockers, which allowed others to pursue and tackle the ballcarriers.
Dungy wanted him disrupting backfields which he did as well as anyone on the team until another undersized lineman, Mathis, joined the team and helped him out.
The Colt defense was designed to protect leads and Freeney did his job well enough for the HOF. Even when he went to other teams, he was still disruptive …
Another thing about Ware was frustration. Paul is right about nagging injuries with the Cowboys but if other players had stepped up and helped him more, he wouldnt have had so much wear and tear …
I know some of you guys are Romo fans and I am as well but if Romo had led them further into the postseason and beyond, I think Ware would have tried more to stay but who knows because Team Jerry makes the decisions.
Freeney may have his flaws but not sure how anyone including voters would leave a first team all decade player out of PFHOF plus has 3(1)/7/SB/125 sacks, I suppose he may not be first ballot but hes getting in. He can wait as long as Seymour-who made round of final 10 his second year on the ballot and will be elected with new few years. I don’t think Ware had any choice as Jerry decided to cut, and worked out for Ware as he signed decent new contract and got the ring – neither of which was likely with Dallas. Plus he went to Denver which signed Talib and Ward, and had Manning. Of course following season (2014) end up Romo’ best chance at SB when they went 12-4 and were a Dez catch short of NFC Championship game. Ahh… what could have been…..
I know, that game makes me so mad, I wont even watch it on replay, though the Cowboys were lucky the week before in the Calvin Johnson – Detroit game … I think Ware could have made a difference against GB …
The thing about the Romo era and even the Garrett years with Dak, they had chances with good teams in the playoffs, but just could not close the deal, something went wrong or team was missing key player. Shows that when you get those playoffs chances you need to take full advantage of as no guarantee about the future. Just look at Dallas or even 49ers, Atlanta and Rams now and opportunities they all had and now face uncertain playoff prospects in near future. Compared to Patriots for two decades or even Steelers, Ravens and Packers (and perhaps now Chiefs) at least in the mix consistently and rebuilding on the fly to remain competitive. Vs Bengals, Jets, Lions and Browns who really haven’t been serious challenges a for decades
When I think about the Clay Matthews or even Sam Mills situations, it reminds of the high quality defenders on Bill Belichick’s teams who were consistent and versatile but played in a TEAM concept that didnt allow for alot of accolades but resulted in championships
Mills or Matthews would have fit right in with these teams but without the championships, theyre facing down senior abyss, as well as other linebackers.
Theyre were a lot of high quality linebackers in the 80’s but the pass rushers, like Taylor, Jackson, Tippett and Mecklenberg got the publicity …
I know Freeney will be in the HOF probably sooner than I suggest or like. I wonder if having a player as good as Robert Mathis 123 sacks on the other side for most of his career takes any shine away Freeney? Funny, Mathis managed to get a respectable amount of tackles where Freeney in many more games didn’t. Do we think it’s a situation of Freeney chasing players into Mathis to be tackled? LOL I’ll do some research to make sure I’m seeing the low tackle total correctly. Of course tackles totals can be unreliable especially I think in earlier years. For example, do we believe that Clyde Simmons really was involved so many tackles earlier in his career? The amount along with the sacks are all time great. I know those Eagle Defenses were amazing. Bottom line deserved or not Freeney most likely has the accolades to be in the HOF. Though, lol he wouldn’t be the first to have them and be passed over.
Curious how y’all feel about other DE’s near Freeney’s 125 sack total? They include John Abraham 133,Leslie O’Neal 132.5, Simeon Rice, 122 and Clyde Simmons 121.5.
Leslie O’neal was a hell of a player his rookie year than had a serious knee injury and never quite had the quickness but still was an excellent player. I wouldn’t count not being All Pro against him with Reggie White and Bruce Smith in the League. Same with other players during that time. He would be a good HOF story.
We did a critique a couple years ago on DE’s. Neil Smith with 104.5 sacks was one of my favorites among the group to be in the HOF. Per stats he has 283 more solo tackles than Freeney in close to same time frame. I really liked the way he finished as a winner with Denver. Though not spectacular he was really important for their Defense. I doubt know if they win a SB in 1997 without him.
Trace Armstrong a HOVG player and a memorable player for longevity . Made PB at 35 with 16.5 sacks.
One of the very best DE’s to never make a Pro Bowl is Jim Jeffcoat with 102 sacks. That’s crazy to me! Could of thrown the guy a bone just one year. LOL
What do we think about a high motor guy like 1/5 DE Justin Smith 87 sacks? Looks to me like he missed out on recognition he should of gotten with Cinny. He got it all in San Fran later in his career.
See Paul …
We are talking about pass rushers and defensive players now, not just wide receivers haha …
Justin Smith was an excellent 34 end or defensive tackle when the 49ers showed 43.
His tenacity and ability to play the run allowed Aldon Smith to get more one-on-one matchups for his pass rush. A tough player who may or not make the HOF … its tough for 34 ends.
Clyde Simmons was a high quality player who like Robert Mathis, benefitted from having a great pass rusher on the other side. When Reggie White left, Simmons struggled but got back to being an excellent rusher within two years. Like Freeney, Ware and Jeffcoat, he played well for other teams.
Jeffcoat deserved recognition earlier in his career but it was an era of great pass rushers but he became very effective as a situational pass rusher … I felt good that he helped the Cowboys win championships.
Rice and Abraham were effective pass rushers who moved around in free agency.
Both were better away from their original teams but free agency, for more worse than better, has affected many players. Had Hardy Nickerson never left Tampa Bay, he would already be in the HOF but never caught on going to Jacksonville. We all know Ricky Watters wasnt the same back going from SF to Philly. The money of free agency takes the hunger and work ethic away from some players.
Leslie O Neil was very good against the run along with being a productive pass rusher.
I think only Peppers was better than him amongst these pass rushers, in terms of overrall game.
Neil Smith was great as well, factoring in his postseason numbers. Yes, he benefitted from Thomas but did well against the run too.
Like undersized Robert Mathis, Elvis Dumervill was a high motor sack artist as well who helped different teams with his pass rush. Probably not enough for the HOF however …
Suggs, like Peppers, played a long time with good run stuff numbers and sacks as well.
championships helps his cause. I met the guy in Nashville. Mouthy and loud but a true cutup and funny …
Good analysis there Brian
Thanks, Paul … I realize I am opinionated and rub people off the wrong way but like everybody on here, just a passionate observer and fan … at least from the past but I still keep my eye on today’s NFL …
The Steelers need their letdown before the playoffs and the Saints need to try to hold off on playing Brees till playoff time …
Jared Allen could definitely play but do you think he could get in as a first ballot choice ?
Its interesting looking at some of the first year eligibles that didnt make the semifinal list.
For me, Charles Tillman is another example of a player with light accolades who had a good to great career … solid in zone coverage who intercepted 38 passes and forced 44, yes …
44 fumbles. Great numbers despite light honors.
Heath Miller might not make the HOF, since its tough for tight ends but he was a great combination blocker-receiver, a throwback to the days of Mark Bavaro. A major contributor to two championships.
The Patriots had four players that were new to the preliminary list …
Mayo was a solid, run stuffing LB but was injured too much …
Mankins probably should have made the semifinal list … a tough/nasty player who played hurt but protected and blocked excellent for the Patriots offense. It would be crazy if Tom Brady has NO linemen who protected him, make the HOF, especially since OT Matt Light cant even make the preliminaries but skilled position players always overshadow them.
Then there is Wes Welker and Asante Samuel.
Both players were essential to Patriots success though Welker failed to win a SB.
However, both players dropped critical balls that could have won SB’s … hopefully, they wont continue to be punished for it.
Look, I like Justin Tuck, who could have been MVP in both Giants, SB wins but his sack totals are just too light.
How does 5 time All-Pro Kevin Williams not make the semis ?
Stephen Jackson has great numbers but once Holt gets elected, I doubt another Ram from that era gets elected … If only Parcells and the Cowboys drafted him … (sigh)
I think Jared Allen is a long shot for 1st ballot election, likely waiting a few years before election. There has been some recent public backlash (including public comments from some voters) about too many 1st ballot elections in recent years and its a fair point. Now that won’t stop Manning or Woodson getting in, but we know there is a deep pool of finalists, many discussed in last several years who are very deserving so there is no lack of other candidates to get elected to fill the remaining slots (Fanaca, Boselli, Lynch, Seymour, Butler, Thomas)
the cutdown from 130 to 25 is brutal, in any year you could pick several on the 25 semi-finalist list and replace with others, there is only 25 so always some left out, its takes time, you get 5 elected each year and unless next election has 5 deserving 1st ballot candidates (this year is was four) others will finally move onto the 25 semi-finalist list, just takes time to get all deserving that far.
Perception of players definitely changes over time.
Like you and Clark Judge said, the number of first-ballot players have been consistent, throughout the last three decades, though I feel lately it has been too many with other worthy players deserving their turn.
We will see if Johnson or Allen could join the list but I hope not. We all have subjective criteria but like you say Paul, the best five of any particular class need to go in.
I could be wrong but looking at pics from the PFHOF Website, it shows Megatron with Manning and Woodson … 2021 Ist Ballot premonition ?
They always highlight the big names
Good mini critiques Brian. You’re always reminding me of things I didn’t realize or forgot.
Paul, you give good technical outlook on what’s possible and likely with the HOF. I appreciate.
I’m the one who wings it going with my gut and fading memory. It’s fun to think I know what I’m taking about. LOL !! Thanks y’all for letting me indulge myself without busting me up too bad. :)
I thought about adding Dumervil. but he was a tweener and I was sticking with DE’s. Dumervil started out great with Denver and finished up great in his defined role with Baltimore. In between he kind of faded. Those torn pectoral muscle injuries derailed several great pass rushers around the same time. I remember the Texas Longhorn playing for the Redskins having that problem too. Now I have to look up. lol Brian Orakpo 0/4 is the one and could of been really good. He had a couple injury filled years slow him down but still was a really good pro.
It’s been a little while since I’ve been on the soap box about the Redskins. LOL I know Paul is cringing at this second. :) Here goes any way, lol anyone watch old Gunsmoke TV show episodes? They use the word “redskins” a whole lot. Sometimes it’s preceded by the word “filthy” but than that word precedes other groups of people when said in a derogartory way. Some people don’t like southerners. LOL I doubt that word is hardly ever used anymore to describe anyone like it was in the old days when it was harder to take a baths. No, I don’t think the term “redskins” was used in bad way most of the time, just mainly to describe the color of their skin, Another word for Indian or specific tribe. It’s like if we were to call someone a whiteskin, brownskin or a blackskin. We use skin color to identify people all the time and always will. God made us unique and it’s hard to ignore .Bottom line is your intent can do nasty things to words but that doesn’t mean the word itself is bad. :)
Oh well, you can’t fight the perpetually offended class in our society who tend to be unhappy to begin with. It’s easy to go through life offended if that’s what you chose. I remember about 15 years ago, when relatively few were upset by the word Redskins. Than the left wing media does it’s best to sway opinion. Now it’s awful. LOL! The squeaky wheel gets the grease too often and boy do we have a non stop media squeak to brainwash. A lot of us don’t want to squeak, we just want to be left alone with our God, guns and freedom in a country with limited government. Unfortunately that ship is passing us by swiftly as we become more and more a socialist society. And there seems to be less and less acceptance of free speech. I heard today about a University Professor who was reprimanded to stay at home because he called Covid 19, the “chinese virus. One student complained. Of course the Professor apologized profusely to know avail. I guess the kid and school officials never heard of the spanish flu? A lot of people in authority seem to be lacking common sense judgement these days. I think fear motives too many people today.
Sports has taken it’s fair share of hits in recent years for perceived “racial insensitivity “. i’m pretty sure the moral fabric of this country isn’t any stronger since political correctness began in earnest 30 years ago and we certainly aren’t more united for it, People can’t legislate in or out, what’s in people’s hearts try as they may. The truth is, the great majority of people in this country are decent towards their fellow man. That said, we are all sinners! We see a lot of unnecessary shaming these days and it only builds resentment and division. I wish I could see an end to this unthankful “grievance society”. There’s only one answer I know of . We have to keep the faith, :)
Any suggestion on what they should call the Washington Team in the future? I was thinking the Braves since that was their name in Boston before moving. My real feeling because of the city they are is that the Washington “Politically Corrects”: or “Corruptors” or “Swamp Creatures” would be most appropriate. Actually those are the nice ones lol I still call their NBA team the Bullets. Hahaha
The Washington Wokes … haha
If Alex Smith wins that division, hands down the feel good story of the year for him and Rivera … it just might happen.
I revisted The Pro Football Hall Of Fame Website just to look at all the first ballot choices since its inception.
Though I felt over 40 players could or should have been first ballot, its easy to understand how they had to put in most of their choices with so many deserving players but so few slots. Still, theyre were many years, where the Hall didnt put enough players in a particular class.
The Hall basically did a great job on the first ballot choices they made, though I felt at least 10-13 players didnt deserve that status but we all know its subjective.
How Did These Players NOT Go Ist Ballot ?
Sid Luckman
Otto Graham
Steve Van Buren
Jim Taylor
Thurman Thomas
Vern Lewellen … 51 TDs in the 30s !
Lenny Moore
Marvin Harrison
Jim Ringo
Mike Webster
Rosey Brown
Willie Davis
Carl Eller
Jack Youngblood
Alan Page
Bobby Bell
Ricky Jackson
Emlen Tunnell
Herb Adderley
Dick Nightrain Lane
Mike Haynes
Jim Johnson
I think both the selection and debates over 1st ballot election are way overrated as just too many factors involved specific to each election. And looking at trends or reasoning over decades is impossible as committee and voters have changed tremendously over time. It’s an interesting task but not really an informative or insightful one regarding the issue why some are first ballot and others aren’t
Good angle Brian! I will have to put some thought into those players. I guess the most obvious snub is Harry Carson. Haha!! In his own mind. :) i apologize I know that was mean but he was one of the more vocal players about what he deserved.
Here’s an article with the opposite angle.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/795795-22-nfl-hall-of-famers-who-dont-deserve-to-be-in-canton
I mostly agree with the players on the list but obviously disagree with Bob Griese not having a place in the HOF.
What do y’all think about the suggestion of it being a mistake to include Senior selection after 1967?
The article was 2011 so I’m shocked Floyd Little is not on the list. He loses most of his credibility there for me. I’d put Little in Griese’s spot. The way he writes makes me think he’s young lacking a feel for what the game used to be.
Yes it sure would be good , it’s already amazing Alex Smith returned to the field. I wonder how many other players have overcome such a devastating injury, maybe not life threatening but with success? I’m thinking of Ottis Anderson but I don’t know severity of injury.
My main view regarding getting seniors elected whose careers ended after 1967 is because many were never given chance to be considered, earlier committees clearly had grudges and bias, plus many elections in 1970s to early 2000s didn’t even fill maximum of moderns allowed so many current seniors never had a chance
Good point Paul.
I’m starting to feel surprised that Zach Thomas hasn’t been put in the HOF yet. He played with a rare tenacity and his tackling numbers bear that out. He has a stellar resume so I wonder what the problem is?? Maybe others see that to and this will be his year? I think he has a better chance of joining Jimmy Johnson this year than Darren Woodson.
The players I would take off the bleacherreport list of not deserving list are:
Joe Namath
Bob Griese
Bob Hayes
Rayfield Wright
Dan Dierdorf
Dave Casper
John Riggins
Roger Wehrli.
Harry Carson
Jan Stenerud
Frank Gatski
Charlie Sanders
I know some of the above players I’ve been very critical of in the past. But it’s a big deal to say someone shouldn’t have a place in the HOF.
These are the ones I would not of put in the HOF. It’s hard to say “not deserving” at this point in time. I just wouldn’t of ever of agreed with.
Dick Lebeau
Chris Hanburger
Dan Hampton
Lynn Swann
Fred Dean
Andre Tippett
Jackie Smith
Art Monk
Russ Grimm
Personally my view has been once in a hall they are in and actually I really don’t have problems with any current PFHOFers. Sure like any list you could question some included but why only issue has been when some players got in as seniors when others were more deserving. Little and LeBeau two notable examples as at time of their selection many others should have been in instead
I really don’t know why Thomas has been waiting long for consideration by the voters, he may get in this election but if not certainly will in next 2-3 years
With the advent of the Internet opinions are a dime a dozen. lol And it’s human nature for a lot of us like to be Monday morning QB’s .
JJ Watt was looking good today. I wonder in he ever makes another Pro Bowl? With the overwhelming respect he’s gotten from around the League during his career I’ve got to believe he’s a HOFer one day.
I like the career WR Devante Adams is building for himself in Green Bay. He should add an All Pro to his 3 PB’s this year and maybe a SB appearance with as good as the Packers Offense looks. He’s a heck of a WR but than I see a lot of really good ones.
Also QB Deshaun Watson is the real deal if he can stay healthy and a few winning seasons would help hurt HOF appeal.. And barring a catastrophe Mahomes will be there to. Anyone other than those two of the newbies look promising? What happened to Jimmy Garopalo this year?
I’ve got Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Tom Brady,and Rodgers in the HOF on 1st ballot.
Of Brian’s list the greatest 1st ballot snubs IMO if they actually were snubs would be Otto Graham, Jim Ringo, Steve Van Buren, Alan Page, Marvin Harrison, Jack Youngblood, Bobby Bell, Emlen Tunnell, and Rosey Brown. I don’t know what the problem was with Jack Youngblood taking so long.
Talk OF Fame Network changed their format more to fit in with the Sports Illustrated website. Guess I wont comment on their anymore … not using Facebook or Twitter to comment. I try to get on the forum section of the Pro Football Researchers Association website but they never get back on accepting my email/password information. Maybe they are encouraging membership ?
Paul are you a paid member to the PFRA site ?
I may join if the site becomes easier to navigate, comment …
No worries on us changing the format here Brian.
I heard on the broadcast of the BUF/SF game last night one of the announcers made reference to someone that “many expect to go to Canton someday.” I think he was talking about Richard Sherman…thoughts? My gut reaction was HoVG, but I know a lot of people love him.
Tony – this site is a blessing and easily accessible. Thanks to you and Andy. I appreciate it …
I think Sherman will make the HOF but not first ballot, same with Revis, who could have been the best of all time but was more interested in taking advantage of free agency.
No I never joined PFRA as paid member, and yea that site is not the best to move around in
Both Sherman and Revis will get into the Hall but I really don’t see either as real strong contenders for 1st ballot election, both have multiple first team all pro, plus all decade team and have SB
Interestingly enough, though its not officially on the PFRA website, though that might have changed by now, these are the newest elected members of the Hall Of Very Good Class for 2020 ? …
Ottis Anderson
Sterling Sharpe
Ed Too Tall Jones
Jay Hilgenberg
Ron McDole
Ritchie Pettibone
Karl Mecklenberg
Buddy Young
Still absent for election is tackle Jimbo Covert, the only PFHOF member not part of this HOVG … unbelievable
Hahaha – Some of those guys were well beyond “good” for large portions of time in their careers. I would say Anderson, Sharpe and Mecklenberg for certain.
I love McDole but probably true. I don’t know enough about Hilgenberg Pettibone or Young. I think the term PFHOVG was made for Ed Too Tall Jones. lol He personified that and nothing wrong with it. Really,really good but not quite HOF great. He made quite a name for himself. Lots of players like him but he stands out because the Cowboys we in the Playoff mix so often and he was a mainstay on D line. Jethro Pugh the same way. I think that man is under appreciated. He has 95 sacks during his career the DT position and never got a PB invite. Warren Sapp had 96 sacks and is showered with accolades. I’m not saying Pugh was HOF great but VERY GOOD and a real gamer. Dallas had a lot of players like that. i personally would have no problem if Lee Roy Jordan was in the HOF. I didn’t see him in the 60’s but I saw enough of him in the 1970’s Another real gamer! I love the way he played the MLB position. He was quite the ball hawk and tough. I thought he was going to play forever.
All of these players that entered the HOVG Class of 2020 had distinguished careers.
Buddy Young was the Darren Sproles of the early 50s, a squat, dangerous All-purpose yardage weapon. Hilgenberg was a quick center for the Bears, who I believe, has a better HOF case than Jim Covert. Mecklenberg was even more versatile a linebacker than current semifinalist Clay Matthews Sr.
Ron McDole and Too Tall Jones had similiar careers. They were both huge, tall ends, who weren’t going to get around a corner like Dwight Freeney but had more overrall games.
Both were very good against the run and tipped passes. Jones was the best I ever saw at doing it, and helped Everson Walls and other players, intercept a lot of balls.
Despite the light accolades for Jones and Harvey Martin, both had high sack numbers in the postseason. According to Pro Football-Reference, Jones had 12 postseason sacks and Martin had 17.5, which is more than current leader, Willie McGinest. No wonder the Cowboys went to three SBs during their years.
“Some of those guys were well beyond “good” for large portions of time in their careers. I would say Anderson”
Not really sure that is true, looks like he had 2-3 great years at start of his career (one pro bowl, one first team all pro), than another 2-3 average seasons in a 14 year career. He does have a SB MVP yet his 8 playoff same career has just two 100y rush games and 3 total TDs
and of the group, Sterling Sharpe is really the only one I think has strong case for PFHOF and will get elected one day.
Haha … you know I would have to disagree about Anderson, Paul …
Though I agree with most of what you said, I still feel Anderson is Hall worthy.
If he had been strictly a power back like Earl Campbell, Eddie George, Marshawn Lynch or Derrick Henry, I could understand not making it but OJ was high on scrimmage yards early in his career.
After his sixth healthy season in 1984, despite the strike shortened season in 1982, Anderson still ranked 11th all-time in rushing, 18th in yards from scrimmage, 35th in all-purpose yards with 39 total TDs …
Had he not been injured in 85-86, those numbers would easily gone up but the Cardinals decided to dump him when he was down and traded him.
He had to become a power back with the Giants but had very good TD totals in 88, 89, and 90 as well as winning his second ring with MVP honors in the SB.
When he retired after 1992, he was only the eighth back ever, to cross 10,000 yards and the previous seven backs made the HOF.
He was ranked 8th all-time in rushing, 9th in scrimmage yards, 12th in all-purpose yards and 16th in TDs with over 90 counting postseason.
Had he played full seasons in 1982, 85, 86 and 87, there wouldnt be any discussion at all.
Great summary on Anderson, Brian. I will also add that he retired 7th all time in rushing TDs.
I know that one of the driving factors behind Floyd Little’s induction was that he finished high on the all time rushing yards list and the players above him on the list were all in the hall of fame.
If the senior committee follows that same logic for Anderson he may eventually get consideration. He is one the best RBs in the senior pool, but he doesn’t have a chance though until Roher Craig gets inducted.
Thanks BSLO …
Not to compare Apples to Oranges but if Kurt Warner can get dumped by three different coaches – and make the HOF … I dont see why Anderson cant, though Craig will get in ahead of him …
Comparing a player with 2 NFL MVP awards to one without is comparing apples to coal
Youre right Paul … haha
Those four seasons … 99,00,01 with the Rams and 2008 with the Cardinals, put him into the HOF … not bad for a QB cut by Holmgren, Martz and Coughlin. Another example of what accolades and postseason can do for a career …
I think Newton is done in NE, though they could still go 8-8.
Belichick will try to find another QB because he wont retire until he breaks Shula’s coaching record …
I will say it here first … I think he will make a play for retired Andrew Luck.
I doubt SF will depart from Jim Garoppolo.
He could try to go for Minshew but only if Jax gets Lawrence. I dont think Lawrence will report to the Jets because of how obvious they are tanking. I think Dallas or Jax will get Lawrence from the Jets …
Crazy yes but lets see what happens.
One hundred
Another example of what accolades and postseason can do for a career …” And that career numbers are not the only factor considered. I am not saying he is among best QBs in the Hall, just not sure how one could expect the voters to ignore a 2x AP NFL MVP.
Hey Brian- I joined PFR last week in the hopes that I could actually have a vote in the “Hall of very Good” in the future. The one cool part of being a member is looking at old stat sheets. They could seriously use an upgrade to their website though. Luck to Pats would make them more interesting but that roster has some serious issue. I’m not sure Luck would be interested coming back to a team with so few offensive threats.
Thanks Bill …
People can say all they want about Garoppolo but the Niners cant win with any other QB, despite a bunch of talent. I dont think they will get rid of him.
Youre right though, the hooded one will have to get receivers to attract a QB, though Edelman will be back but he is getting old as well.
I think this is the last season for Brees, Ryan and maybe Rivers …
Unless they choose to retire I don’t see this as last year for Ryan or Rivers, possible they move to other teams and there are suitors who would be interested
Andrew Luck playing for New England would be intriguing. Hope it doesn’t happen. Stick with Cam. LOL!
My feeling is that Matt Ryan is New England’s QB next year.
Similar to Calvin Johnson, Luck’s retirement came out of nowhere, and people seem convinced that he will get the itch to play again, but I really think he is done with football.
Ryan has regressed but maybe McDaniels for NE can get him playing well again. I was wrong about Rivers, he has played well enough to play next year but it might depend on how his postseason looks ? Will be an interesting 2021 offseason. I get a feeling the Packers might finally win another championship for Rodgers but the Chiefs will try to go back-to-back.
BLSO, I think you’re right about Luck. He’s done! He had a good deal with the emerging Colt’s OL and he quit. He doesn’t want to get the hell beaten out of himself anymore would be my thinking. He can use that Stanford education now.
The Packers looked so pathetic versus the 49ers in the Playoffs last year. Rodgers has really surprised me. I didn’t think he quite had the juice left but the rest of the Offense has come around. And Devante Adams is a bonafide star now. I still find it hard to believe they can get to SB with their Defense even if a little better.
Outside chance of a Rodgers vs Big Ben Super Bowl rematch. I don’t know who I’d pick. It would be a close matchup.
Biggest storyline would be Packers O vs. Steelers D.
The Super Bowl I want to see is Super Bowl 1 rematch of Kansas City vs Green Bay. It would be the best QB matchup. Two of the best WR’s . I just love watching Tyreek Hill play!! One would think both teams would score in the 40’s. I’d go with Kansas City in that one.
Kansas City is the Team I’d most like to see win the SB. It would almost be a shame with that Offense if they didn’t win another one .I don’t want to see them go the way of the St. Louis Rams. I still can’t believe the Patriots beat that Team. Should of never happened. Stupid “tuck rule” Twice the Patriots beat the better team. Improbable winner. I remember another improbable team that was the first Wild Card team to win the SB. Can anyone name them?
Oakland Raiders …
Luck may not play again but wouldn’t it be intriguing if Belichick reached out to him after trying to obtain his rights from Indy ?
Luck may even get to keep his #12 jersey, which would piss off alot of Brady fans but the Patriots would have to get a go-to receiver to draw his interest. Matt Ryan, Garoppolo, Minshew — if the Jags got Lawrence, or Darnold — if the Jets got Lawrence, could all be possibilities because the Patriot defense will rebound next year.
Yes, the Pack defense isnt the best but if they get home field advantage in the cold weather, will the Seahawks, Rams or Saints stop their offense ?
Its now or never for Rodgers to get his second ring but the Chiefs will either play to their potential or give Vegas a huge payday if theyre upset …
Always interesting seeing which veteran QB can get it done with Brady, Brees, Russell, Rodgers, Big Ben, maybe Alex Smith, Rivers and Tannehill about to make the playoffs, with young guns, Mahomes, Goff, Jackson, Tags, Mayfield, Allen and maybe Murray entering the fray …
Yup. THE Rai- deeeeers! That was some run thanks to Plunkett and Lester Hayes and luck in Cleveland. That may of been the best team with Brian Sipes at the helm. Poor Browns always figure out a way to lose.
With the removal of the “Indians” from the Cleveland Team, do you think the NFL’s main attraction, the Chiefs are next? I just don’t get it! Do we even think the native Americans are pushing for these changes? it’s probably like Black Lives Matters. A bunch of Liberals hiding behind a progressive movement to reconfigure America society in to socialist utopia. Seems to me like Native Americans are losing standing in consciousness of our society with these name changes. I guess you’ll never think of them now unless you go to a casino. Too bad!
If Patrick Mahomes wins a 2nd MVP this year which I think he should get though very close with Rodgers and the Chiefs make it to the Super Bowl, wouldn’t that assure him of the HOF? He would be comparable to Kurt Warner than. Also if happens can you think of another QB who cemented his HOF legacy quicker? I can’t! Wow that Team is loaded with HOF talent. Like I said before, I’ve got Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill already penciled in barring a career ending injury. And Hill gets injured after this year he would be equal to Sterling Sharp so still a chance at HOF.
That game between the Lions-Titans yesterday captures Matt Stafford’s entire career …
Great arm, poise in the pocket, great throws but another loss. Why ?
The Lions had theyre chance to win behind Stafford. They controlled the clock, moved the ball but were killed by two fumbles. Then the defense collapsed, as the Titans rolled along.
As usual, Stafford loses another game that wasnt his fault.
However, like Sonny Jurgenson of the Redskins in the 1960s, the Lions have never tried to give Stafford a running game, at least in the last eight years and its simple — why run when you have arm talent like Stafford ?
With the receivers he has had and the money he makes, thats understandable but throwing the ball doesnt translate into wins. Same with Jurgenson, who at least got to call his own plays and still never emphasised the run game with the Redskins but makes the HOF, without a winning record.
Even Joe Namath tried to run the ball but got two championship wins before the Jets talent level dried up.
With the two fumbles and the defense not making stops, why are Stafford’s teammates not playing to his level or having his back ?
Is it bad coaching, bad situational football or does Stafford simply not elevate or inspire the players around him ?
Yes, a QB’s job is to throw the ball, manage his offensive unit and the clock and win games but doesnt he win games by getting the best out of his teammates, elevating their play and winning in pressure moments ?
I love great throwers and Stafford is one of the best ever but I emphasize QBs who win.
Whats better, to look great throwing the ball and lose or “manage” a game, a team and win ?
Jurgenson and Moon are the only great throwing QBs in the HOF without an overrall winning record. Fouts and Namath are barely over .500 because of postseason wins. Without a championship I dont think Stafford makes it but the Lions need to figure out what to do with him …
If the Lions get Jim Harbaugh as coach, they will probably emphasize the run and defense more but do you keep Stafford or release him ?
The Patriots, Bears, Cowboys, Raiders, Eagles, Vikings, 49ers, Falcons, Broncos and Saints could all try to get him if they are willing to pay him … Now is the time.
Wow, RIP Kevin Greene.
Unbelievable !!
RIP Kevin Greene
Cant wait for this year to end … money doesnt sleep or wear a mask but is happy to exchange hands …
RIP Kevin Greene. Way too young.
So sad about Kevin Greene. He played football the way it was intended!
That is sad! I was someone who thought he should of been put into the HOF much sooner. I’m glad he did get to enjoy the notoriety for a couple years. If they had an all-effort team he’d be on it and of course he was very talented too. . Will miss not seeing him in the future. RIP
Pretty young, a year older than me, I wonder what he died of? I guess it will come out later.
Greene’s sidekick in Pittsburgh Greg Lloyd 3/5 was a really good player too. If he had a little more longevity maybe he would of eked into HOF too.
About Greene, I guess they don’t put many OLB in the HOF? Rickey jackson 0/6 comes to mind. I was surprised when he made the HOF. Now I see he really did have the production as a tackler even if no All Pro selections. I’m still waiting on 2/6 Isiah Robertson.
Other OLB I liked Keena Turner, Tom Jackson and Larry Gordon.
What a crazy day …
We lose Kevin Greene, the Steelers lose to the BENGALS and crazy Pro Bowl voting …
Watson over TiTannehill ?
No Lavonte David but Kahlil Mack ?
Jamal Adams ?
Campbell over Buckner ?
Frank Clark ?
Hey Brian- Who do you think should have made it over Jamal Adams? I will say that Gilmore did not have a Pro Bowl caliber year but his teammate J.C. Jackson did. I also would have put Tannehill in over Watson. I also would replace Mack but not with David but his teammate Devin White.
I agree, Deshaun Watson is a reach this year. Not that he’s been bad. And a world of talent. I like winning and Ryan has led his team. That guy will be a tough out. I thought Miami letting go of him was a mistake but I understand he had injuries. 31 Tds and 5 ints. with 8.1 Y/A ints with a 10-4 team, he must be wondering what he has to do. LOL
Sounds like you’re on top of Brian. :)
2021 PRO BOWL PLAYERS BY POSITION:
AFC (* Denotes Starter)
Offense:
QB Patrick Mahomes* Chiefs
QB Josh Allen Bills
QB Deshaun Watson Texans
RB Derrick Henry* Titans
RB Nick Chubb Browns
RB Josh Jacobs Raiders
WR Tyreek Hill* Chiefs
WR Stefon Diggs* Bills
WR Keenan Allen Chargers
WR A.J. Brown Titans
TE Travis Kelce* Chiefs
TE Darren Waller Raiders
FB Patrick Ricard* Ravens
T Laremy Tunsil* Texans
T Eric Fisher* Chiefs
T Orlando Brown Ravens
G Quenton Nelson* Colts
G Joel Bitonio* Browns
G David DeCastro Steelers
C Maurkice Pouncey* Steelers
C Ryan Kelly Colts
Defense:
DE Myles Garrett* Browns
DE Joey Bosa* Chargers
DE Frank Clark Chiefs
DT Chris Jones* Chiefs
DT Cameron Heyward* Steelers
DT Calais Campbell Ravens
OLB T.J. Watt* Steelers
OLB Bradley Chubb* Broncos
OLB Matt Judon Ravens
ILB Darius Leonard* Colts
ILB Tremaine Edmunds Bills
CB Xavien Howard* Dolphins
CB Tre’Davious White* Bills
CB Marlon Humphrey Ravens
CB Stephon Gilmore Patriots
FS Minkah Fitzpatrick* Steelers
FS Justin Simmons Broncos
SS Tyrann Mathieu* Chiefs
Specialists:
LS Morgan Cox* Ravens
P Jake Bailey* Patriots
K Justin Tucker* Ravens
RS Andre Roberts* Bills
ST Matthew Slater Patriots
NFC
Offense:
QB Aaron Rodgers* Packers
QB Russell Wilson Seahawks
QB Kyler Murray Cardinals
RB Dalvin Cook* Vikings
RB Alvin Kamara Saints
RB Aaron Jones Packers
WR Davante Adams* Packers
WR DeAndre Hopkins* Cardinals
WR DK Metcalf Seahawks
WR Justin Jefferson Vikings
TE T.J. Hockenson* Lions
TE Evan Engram Giants
FB Kyle Juszczyk* 49ers
T David Bakhtiari* Packers
T Trent Williams* 49ers
T Terron Armstead Saints
G Brandon Scherff* Washington Football Team
G Elgton Jenkins* Packers
G Andrus Peat Saints
C Jason Kelce* Eagles
C Frank Ragnow Lions
Defense:
DE Cameron Jordan* Saints
DE Brandon Graham* Eagles
DE Chase Young Washington Football Team
DT Aaron Donald* Rams
DT Fletcher Cox* Eagles
DT Grady Jarrett Falcons
OLB Khalil Mack* Bears
OLB Za’Darius Smith* Packers
OLB Jason Pierre-Paul Buccaneers
ILB Bobby Wagner* Seahawks
ILB Fred Warner 49ers
CB Jalen Ramsey* Rams
CB Jaire Alexander* Packers
CB Marshon Lattimore Saints
CB James Bradberry Giants
FS Quandre Diggs* Seahawks
SS Budda Baker* Cardinals
SS Jamal Adams Seahawks
Specialists:
LS Tyler Ott* Seahawks
P Jack Fox* Lions
K Younghoe Koo* Falcons
RS Cordarrelle Patterson* Bears
ST Nick Bellore* Seahawks
Anyone care to predict how many HOFers come out of this year’s Pro Bowl? LOL
Youre right Bill, its a tough call on who would get in over Adams but you would think a top pass, overrall defensive team would have someone.
Adams does have good numbers near the line of scrimmage but his sack numbers are a little overrated, considering their defense is still poor against the pass, though they have been better recently.
Remember too he has missed four games with still two to go, and like a lot of players gets voted in more on politics and publicity than actual production. Whining his way out of the Jet situation — though he has a point — should be considered as well, though the Seahawks seem to always pick up quality players before getting beat again in the playoffs, since 2015 anyway …
Then there is Alvin Kamara …
This guy to me, has HOF talent but being a runner-receiver like Craig, Watters and Barber, he may not make the Hall because he is not a featured runner. If the Saints could win another SB, it would help him but he may have to go to more of a run-oriented team and get the rushing yards he needs, to have a chance. Getting paid right now, I don’t see that happening but once Brees leaves, you have to wonder what his production will continue to be like and if the team can keep winning with a new QB. Hill has played well but will the Saints keep him or Winston as the starter?
TonyP …
I counted at least 10-12 players that I believe have future shots at the HOF, if they can stay healthy and have postseason success …
TonyP …
I feel they’re at least 10-12 players on these rosters that have real shots at the HOF if they can stay healthy and have postseason success.
Is Joey Bosa having a better year than JJ watt? I know Watt isn’t quite the beast he was but he’s still formidable requiring a lot of the Defensive planning according to the Coaches he faces. JJ is in year 10, I’ve got him solid in the HOF within his first 10 years of eligibility despite injuries. If he leaves Houston I hope he can do like Rickey Jackson and pickup a ring and finish on a high. Imagine if he had Deshaun Watson as his QB in his prime. People might even talk about him more. LOL
Interesting that Howie Long who IMO compared with JJ Watt isn’t as talented, got into the HOF after a one year wait, before the great Jack Youngblood who had about twice the sacks. lol That seems pretty wrong. I guess that’s why Youngblood got in the very next year. :) It does seem like the HOF selection committee can on occasion be swayed by personality over actual talent with some players who they like. No doubt Howie is a very engaging good guy. JJ Watt should be 1st ballot HOF than. As it stands now his career isn’t quite there IMO. I know probably too much is made of the number of years a player wait. I know it matters a lot to some of the best players so we talk about. Youngblood is just one I can’t wrap my head around. When I think of 70’s Defense I think of him, Merlin Olsen, Bob Lilly and Joe Greene. There was a game where the Rams played the Seahawks that I recall being amazed at the level of defense played by the Rams. It seems like they allowed negative yards for the whole game. It just really stuck with me. They were sooooo good just like the Steelers they could get on a roll of shutouts. Just looking back, in 1975 they allowed one Team to score 24 points and the rest under 20 points and 8 games in single digit. I think the Cowboys beating them in the NFC Championship game has to be top 10 upsets ever a meaningful game. That was some deal the Cowboys pulled off!!
Already at HOF door IMO – Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Aaron Donald, Bobby Wagner
These are players I project as HOFers one day.
Patrick Mahomes, Khalil Mack, Deandre Hopkins, Travis Kelce, Maurkice Pouncey, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Tyreek Hill, Fletcher Cox Quenton Nelson, Derrick Henry and Justin Tucker.
Brian, I’ve got 15!! lol
I guess in the 70’s I should think about Alan Page too. lol A little hard with the beat downs in Super Bowls but they GOT THERE. :)
Even as a Chiefs fan, I have absolutely no idea how Frank Clark made the Pro Bowl this year. He only has 5 sacks and the Chiefs as a whole have been bad against the run. The only thing that I can fathom is that there just haven’t been a lot of standout performances at DE in the AFC this year, and that voters fell back on reputation (though in that case, why wouldn’t they default to JJ Watt?). Only Myles Garrett has really been a standout in the AFC, though Bosa has had a pretty good year too. Personally, I would have gone with Stephon Tuitt on Pittsburgh as the final DE.
As for the Tannehill snub, I don’t really think i would call that one a miss. That one is simply a numbers game. There were 4 highly deserving QBs in the AFC, and he just happened to be the one left out. Tannehill has been fantastic this year, but he’s also had an outstanding supporting cast. Watson meanwhile has basically been carrying the Texans offense, and he is second only to Mahomes in passing yards. The team success obviously hasn’t been there, but Watson has had a great individual year nonetheless.
On a side note, it is downright crazy how much better Henry and Cook have been than the rest of the RBs in the league. That will no doubt be there easiest position to predict for the All Pro team this year!
I respectfully disagree BSLO …
Yes, Tannehill has Henry behind him but like Watson, he is under pressure to score points because the Titans have a bad defense and NO pass rush … at least Watson has JJ Watt and Mercillus.
Before Fuller got suspended, Watson had as much offensive talent as the Titans, though Johnson at running back stays nicked up.
The Texans have too much talent to have only four wins, while Tannehill has won five games from behind himself. He is only six TD passes from breaking George Blanda’s team record.
Youre right on Clark, and the Chiefs may need to lose again before the playoffs. They havent played well and might not sweep the table.
Good views TonyP …
Chubb for Cleveland is the real deal though.
Had he not gotten hurt, he would be at least with Cooks. The Browns would be stupid not to milk him in the playoffs.
Trent Williams made another PB and has a shot at the HOF if the Niners can keep Garoppolo healthy.
I disagree on Mack … he plays when he wants and doesnt have the drive to make the HOF in my view. I dont see former Dolphin Fitzpatrick getting there either but who knows ?
If the Dolphins win 10 games, I see Flores as Coach of the Year, unless the Red Walrus goes back-to-back.
I’ll agree the Texans have too much talent for 4 wins, they have lost some heartbreakers.I think if it’s the numbers I’d lean Tannehill. Some are better for him some for Watson so tie goes to QB who’s winning games no matter the load for me. It’s a case of too much credit vs. too much blame. Good point about the comebacks.
like Clark’s story but agree he hasn’t been top notch. Maybe it’s a case of not any standout D Linemen in the AFC? This is why those All decade Teams can be misleading for certain positions. it’s been KC’s secondary that’s been impressive when I’ve watched.
Like BSLO said, its a numbers game but I feel Watson is a little overrated anyway but like you said, the QB gets too credit for wins and too much blame for losses. Murray deserved the PB over Brady because he doesnt have the same talent surrounding him. He is an MVP candidate.
Has anyone heard yet on Greene’s cause of death ?
Nope . I bet we would know if it was Covid. :)
Someone just did an interview with Chad Johnson and called him a likely HOFer. He’s just not quite there for me despite his 2-6 profile and 11,000 yards. His total flop with New England doesn’t help. Never 100 catches in a season. His 67 TD’s are just alright for HOF candidate. His stat’s just don’t jump out at me and it felt like just when the spotlight got really bright with some team success he kind of faded. He was only on 3-4 winning teams. A lot of 8-8 teams. Only four playoff games with total of 7 catches and one game he was shutout. Maybe I’m too tough but but with all the good WR’s the last couple decades he wouldn’t be in my HOF. His personality stood out sometimes more than his game. Like his successor AJ Green, really nice player just a bit short of HOF career. I think Green has more talent. What do y’all think?
Check that , 2 of Chad Johnson’s playoff games were with the Pats where he was almost non existent. He ha=e a whopping 2 playoff games in 10 years with Cinncy. I know he was under enormous pressure to be productive in those games. One of them his QB was lost.
Like I stated above, quickness and talent wise, Chad Johnson like Andre Rison, had it all but was a headache for his own teams and could deviate from what his coaches and some QB’s wanted. He would frustrate Carson Palmer and never jelled with Tom Brady.
I still believe if NE went to him more in the 2011/12 SB, they might have won but the Giants pass rush kept Brady guessing.
Moss stated this week that he was the greatest receiver of all-time with T.O second and Rice third but alot of people didnt agree.
In his SB for the 49ers in 2012/13, he only had one big catch and no TDs …
Merry Christmas to all
Merry Christmas also!! Been a tough year! Lets be merry. :)
Even if Alvin Kamara doesn’t make HOF he’ll always be remembered for 6 TD’s in a game. :)
IMO Chad Johnson and A.J. Green are Hall of Very Good. Kamara’s TD/touch percentage is one of the best All time. He is on a HOF path. JJ Watt is a sure fire HOfamer but I sure hope he gets at least one chance at a Super Bowl, even if it is with another team.
Sad weekend in Nashville … not used to a bomb going off near out AT&T building …
Lost telephone power/reception for over 24 hours …
Getting an emergency/ham radio. Any “terrorist” threat will shut down our phones, computers and emergency 911 services like this saturday.
Kamara played well and the Vikings are ready for the season to end. Too bad he wont be All-Pro …
#pfhof class of 2021 modern finalists to be announced on NFL network on January 5th at 6p @ProFootballHOF #pfhof21 #pfhof2021 #profootballhof #profootballhalloffame
I was surprised to hear Friday’s game was only Alvin Kamara’s third 100 yard rushing game of career. I;m not sure if he’s the type player that appeals to HOF unless he sets records or does it at a high level for a Super Bowl winning team. He’s got a good chance to put himself on the map this year with the Saints . Than he has to stay there. Up until now he’s been a nice player. He’s not better than Roger Craig yet. Those 67 TDs has him looking pretty good though.
Do you think Roger Craig’s career stats were helped or hurt by playing for the 49ers west coast offense with all that talent? In other words could he of done any better for another team, say like the Washington Redskins?
When evaluating Alvin Kamara’s career, I like to compare him more to Lenny Moore than Roger Craig. Kamara’s TD to RUSCH/REC rate is off the charts, and because he is not a workload back he should have a longer career. If that happens the counting stats will go up. I also will not be surprised if his rush attempts go up slightly once Brees retires.
Good points Bill. I agree if he can max out the years he has real good shot. A 1,000 – 1,000 would go along way too but I don’t think he’ll get it. If he does, next year will have to be the one. I personally think he’ll have a hard time staying healthy if he rushes the ball more. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong.
Everytime I look at Roger Craig’s stats I say, “really”, he should be in the HOF?? lol But when I don’t look at them and time goes by and hear opinion and think about him on those great Teams, I say sure he’s got to be HOFer. :) If he wasn’t on a winner would he be a HOFer? How many players can you name that being on a winning team was the big difference? I can name some that it didn’t matter for like Chuck Howley, Jake Scott and Bob Keuchenberg the winningest player this side of Tom Brady.
Craig is such a tweener!! Lol It’s hard to not be drawn in by those two outstanding years and the Team he played for. But the full picture just don’t look like enough. I guess I understand why it’s taken so long. His career has got to be equal to Floyd Little, right? I say put him in already. lol
What hurts Craig’s chances are the lack of better rushing numbers, thanks to his head coach and the fact that despite three championships, those 49ers teams already have four HOF players elected in Montana, Lott, Dean and Haley. Should Craig be added ? … I think so but we will see. I just hope four years from now the HOF will get it right and elect two seniors per year because the abyss keeps on growing …
I am excited for the upcoming 15 finalists and hope the voters do the best job possible. Though the younger players could wait, hopefully the right veterans will get a chance to move closer to induction but it could get down to concessions.
For the past ten years I have been extremely disappointed with the product the NFL has been putting on the field and despite getting excited for the playoffs and the crowning of an official champion, this game is going to get worse before it gets better. Some of these upsets over the past four weeks have been ridiculous and I still cant believe how games have resorted to one team winning a half before the other team wins the second half.
I know the networks like drama and last second finishes but its getting too old. The Chargers and Falcons both should have at least 3-4 extra wins but their defenses just cant hold leads. Even against the Chiefs, who I believe will either lose sunday or get beat in the playoffs, the Falcons had them on the ropes and let them get away … ?
If the pass interference rule could be changed to just a 15 yrd penalty, defenses would have more of a chance. Many times, the defender holds the receiver, which should just be a 5 yrd penalty but the referees will call pass interference and make the gain larger for the offense. This simple rule change could prevent many “comebacks” and bring some sanity back to the game I once loved and miss.
I’d really like to see Barber and Willis advance to the finalist round this time. In my opinion, they were the best 2 players that were dropped before the finalist round last year. That said, they’re clearly behind Woodson and Thomas respectively at their positions so they don’t have much of a chance of induction.
I get the feeling that this might be the year Steve Tasker breaks through to the finalist round, but to me he would be make the perfect senior candidate. A guy who many voters believe belong in the Hall, but not at the expense of another modern era player. I think he’d get in if he wasn’t competing against other players for a vote.
I agree about wanting to see Tasker break through. I feel Willis can wait but those accolades are hard to ignore.
I would like to see Eric Allen advance forward. A tough cornerback to thrown on, though Barber is getting closer.
I still feel that safeties will be left out of election this year though Butler, Lynch and hopefully, Woodson will advance but its tough for Darren because his team already has Aikman, Smith, Irvin, Sanders, Haley and Allen already in the HOF …
I think Tasker will get advanced into final 15 in 2022 as voters give him a look during his last year on ballot as a modern candidate
I think voters will hold off on Tasker until. 2022 which will be his last year as modern candidate and they give him chance to have case discussed in room as finalist
It’s time for my yearly, isn’t it a damn shame about Darren Sharper? lol It’s a sad result for one of the best DB’s of his time. He was certainly high profile playing for good Packer, Vikings and Saints teams. I’m sure he’s a HOFer but for his misdeeds.
Here’s the latest news. It doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere for a long time.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/10/01/former-viking-darren-sharpers-effort-to-toss-sentence-in-rape-case-rejected/
Youre right TonyP, Sharper should be inducted but the HOF doesnt want to rock the boat on negative publicity. Whats strange is that the elections of Curley Culp and finally Johnny Robinson will probably forever shut the door on any chance of Jim Tyrer making the HOF. With so many Chiefs from that era elected, its an easier argument to exclude him rather than focus on the way he died.
Ed Budde and Abner Haynes will also miss out.
I am hearing reports that Cooks for the Vikings wont be playing this final weekend.
Unless he is hurt, I feel he should play. Any possible 1500 yard rushing season would look good on a running back’s resume and Cooks should try to go for it. Many people feel he is the NFL’s best back other than Henry, with Chubb being third but he is known for getting nicked up alot as well.
I am predicting that the Packers win the SB this year, so Rodgers can quit being the greatest regular season QB of all-time and actually join the list of All-Time QBs with multiple championships …
I would love to see him fail again however …
Sorry, I goofed …
Just now finding out why Cooks isnt playing.
RIP for his father …
It’s not about how Tyrer died, it’s fact that he killed his wife. And as to Sharper I don’t see his omission as a big deal as there are plenty of 2nd team all decade players not in the Hall, including many who have been waiting decades longer. It doesn’t make his absence that glaring.
It’s glaring for me Paul. Sharper not only had a nose for the football but was one of the best ever after he intercepted it with 11 Int TD’s. That better than Deion Sanders and he has about twice the tackles. A certain HOFer if it’s only about on the field and a sad exclusion for me.
Sharper is second team but he’s real close to Ed Reed and Brian Dawkins’ first team in my book. Dawkins got the accolades because of he was a more vicious tackler. I’m not sure why Reed got so much more attention than Sharper when Sharper was his equal statistically? If Free Safety is mostly about playing the pass and being the last line of Defense I could make argument Sharper and Ed Reed were the best. Dawkins played more like a Strong Safety from the looks of his stats. If that’s the case than it looks like Reed barely edged out Sharper for the 1st Team spot. Both Reed and Dawkins played on better Defenses which may of helped with notoriety. Statistically I don’t see an obvious edge comparing the three. Maybe the the differences are in ways you can’t measure. The way a player looks can be more appealing to the eye despite doing the same thing. lol I’ll give you Dawkins was the better leader with his pit bull mentality. He probably made the All-Madden Team multiple times. lol Sharper still managed to get a couple All Pros over the same time of Reed, Polamalu and Dawkins. What I think is you have is 4 who could all be 1st Team. LOL The 2000’s had some great Safeties.
Sharper literally had it made after football . Reminds me of OJ Simpson and Bill Cosby. All the charisma in the world but something is off. He sure blew it!! Ok, I said my piece until next year! lol
Oh ya, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! Woowho!
Brain, I thought Peyton Manning was still the best regular season QB ever? Rodgers seems like be the best QB to only win one Super Bowl. I hear a lot of disappointment over that. Actually Tom Brady has about 50 more regular season wins than Manning and 10 fewer losses. He’s the king of everything. They only said about Manning because there was such a contrast between regular and playoffs. Actually when he retired he may of had more wins the Brady. I still think Manning is the best ever. He didn’t have the consistently good defenses Brady had with the Pats thanks to Belicheck. Not saying Brady wouldn’t of figured out a way. He was pretty remarkable. He just didn’t always have too. Most of those Colts teams gave up a lot of points. The Sheriff knew how to score points. lol
Long list of deserving players including all decade players, personally I am not going to shed any concern or debate over Sharper. I simply don’t care if he never gets in.
The Sheriff is overrated … haha
My joke about being the greatest regular season QB was facetious dealing with one time champions with great statistics like Steve Young and Rodgers, who everybody salivates over … once Manning finally got that second championship, he joined the All-time great winners, though to be honest, I believe Newton layed down in that SB …
Haha. Over rated? I don’t think so. lol I despised Peyton Manning for years as a Texans fan. Unfortunately he was that good. He would eat everybody up but the very best teams. Your right about Young but he gets a pass from me for getting a late start, Here’s a tough one, who’s the best QB to never win a Championship? Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Fran Tarkington, YA Title, Dan Fouts or someone else?
I was looking at game prediction on youtube and look what popped up next. A 1st ballot HOFer one day. :) He is Randy Moss fast but his legs are a whole lot shorter. lol Just amazing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ugu4OapdqM
I’m not sure what Newton was doing? LOL Really I think Von Miler and Denver Defense got in his head by putting so much pressure on him all game. i think he was licked in his head, That’s why he didn’t react to the ball. He’s no Patrick Mahomes. lol
I got the first post of 2021! Von Miller might be 9 years in and done now. Hard for me to admit an Aggie is a HOFer. lol
A close call … possibly Ken Anderson because he could run or throw … I look at Marino and Fouts equally, though Jurgensen could sling it with anyone. Lots of talented QBs who didnt win it all like Lamonica, Gabriel, Brodie, Jones, White, Esiason, Moon, Kelly, Cunningham, McNabb, etc …
Most would say Marino but I say Anderson …
There’s a lot of luck in a Super Bowl run. Green Bay will likely have to make do without their starting Left Tackle for the Playoffs.
https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/injuries/packers-bears-thurs-injury-report-bakhtiari-added-with-knee
I’m not even going there with Anderson. LOL I wasn’t going to say Marino. I’d probably go with Jim Kelly. He was the whole package.
Kelly took too many hits because he wasnt mobile while Anderson could run through anybody … very tough to defend. I felt Kelly turned the ball over too much in big games like Brett Favre.
Yeah, Rodgers losing his left tackle will hurt.
Can the Pack overcome it ?
Can Brees or Russell get back to the SB ?
Kelly was mobile early in his career but he didn’t look to run like Anderson. Anderson was tough but I don’t remember him running through too many people. lol I remember he had good speed and was a very effective scrambler. Again his toughness served him well.
Kelly was much better in crunch time and a winner. He would give up is body for key yards and it took a toll. They always said he was a Linebacker in a QB body. lol I think most QB’s who play for a while give up bad interceptions in big games. Neither Anderson or Kelly were particularly good at avoiding INT’s in big games. I think in Kelly’s case he was a little too high strung like you said, Favre like. That same energy made him a great winner. It’s hard to turn it down. There’s something to be said for being cool under pressure. Not many QB’s have it like Montana or Brady. I’d take Kelly hands down over Anderson when both were in their prime with getting to a Super Bowl as the goal. I think we tend to remember these QB’s as what they were towards the end of their careers. Anderson withstood time better which is quite a compliment to him because he took a lot of abuse over his career. He had real staying power. I still don’t support him for the HOF though. Sorry. :)
I’ll go out on the limb and say Brees has one more run in him. I suppose I’d rather see him win a second SB over Rodgers winning one. Seems like he deserves just slightly more with some hard luck the Saints have had. If Tennessee can get in Derrick Henry could make them a real tough out in cold weather. The key would be keeping him healthy. Playoff games are bruising.
RIP Floyd Little
Crazy display of football today …
A 7-9 and 8-8 teams make the playoffs, while a 10-6 team is left out …
Philly lays down in the 4th Qrt, while Smith and Rivera win the division for the team without a name …
Derrick Henry rushes for over 2000 yards but the Titans defense today was one of the worst I have ever seen in a big game.
The Chiefs got their loss to bring them back down to earth. Can they refocus and win it all, back-to-back ?
Lost money on a pathetic offensive line effort by the Cowboys … another choke job with a chance to win the division.
Rodgers, Russell, Brees and Mahomes get a chance at winning multiple championships. Big Ben and Brady get a chance for more possible rings.
Fields may join the Jets but OSU QBs suck in the pros …
Texas Tech QBs pretty much sucked too before Mahomes. You scout the player not the helmet. Haskins clearly would’ve busted no matter he went to college as he’s simply too immature. The other more recent Buckeyes QBs were never great NFL prospects. (T.Pryor, Cardale Jones).
As for Henry it’s still early days but he’s building himself a very nice potential HOF resume with that 2,000 yard season. I think Rodgers will be MVP with Henry as OPOTY.
I don’t think the Chiefs will be too bothered about losing today as they were already locked in to homefield advantage. It’s all about staying healthy for the postseason. Mahomes though will go three weeks between games. Will he be rusty when he comes back? The Ravens got caught cold last year in similar circumstances.
May be weeks (or even months) before “official” announcement of retirements, but based on speculation it is looking like class of 2026 first ballot eligible list is going to be pretty impressive (not all will be 1st ballot elected):
2026: Drew Brees, Larry Fitzgerald, Philip Rivers, Jason Witten, Frank Gore
“Lost money on a pathetic offensive line effort by the Cowboys” In all fairness a line populated by 2nd, 3rd and even 4th string players who have struggled all season
Not sure that this will be a wake up call for the Chiefs. They didn’t play any of their star players against the Chargers, so I fully expected that to be a loss.
I don’t feel nearly as confident this year about the Chiefs chances of making it to the Super Bowl, but none of the AFC teams are really sticking out as a threat. The Chiefs easily beat the Bills and Ravens earlier this year, and the rest of the playoff teams haven’t looked especially sharp during the stretch run.
I really hope the Chiefs get Mitchell Schwartz back for the playoffs. They have really missed him at RT.
Bills and Titans are on a roll as is GB
My Wild Card Predictions …
NFC … N.O, TB, LA in an upset
AFC … Balt, Pitt, Indy in an upset
Not sure why my comment didnt go in ?
Wild Card Predictions
NFC … TB, N.O … LA in upset over Seattle
AFC … Balt, Pitts … Indy in upset over Bills
Remember that class of 2021 finalists will be announced tonight at 6p on NFL network
I’ve got TB, NO, Bills, Seattle, Pitt, and Tenn in a repeat upset moving on.
Paul is the Master Of Ceremonies …
Keep us informed because I am not tracking Twitter or other sources, yet …
Who is left ? Faneca, Boselli, Woodson, Seymour and ??
Wow Mills and Matthews !!
Has to be Faneca and Boselli … with Seymour in.
Sorry D Woodson, Ward, Willis, Allen, Harrison, Tasker … very surprised to see Matthews make it …
Prediction …
P Manning
C Woodson
C Johnson
A Faneca
Z Thomas
Peyton Manning
Alan Faneca
Tony Boselli
Charles Woodson
Calvin Johnson
Zach Thomas
John Lynch
Torry Holt
Jared Allen
Ronde Barber
Leroy Butler
Clay Matthews Jr
Reggie Wayne
Sam Mills
Richard Seymour
Last year on modern ballot for Matthew’s Jr, common for voters to advance such cases so they at least have final chance to be discussed by the voters but like case for Everson Walls a few years ago he won’t advance further
Seymour has a great chance as well. Interior linemen never get enough credit and he could join fellow Patriot Ty Law … Wondering how long it will be before another nose/shade tackle like Smerlas, Washington, Thomas or Krumrie gets a chance ?
Congratulations to all the Finalists !
And this is interesting from Clark Judge (voter)..” All will be discussed by Hall-of-Fame voters when they convene virtually on Jan. 19”, so looks like no face to face meeting of committee as per usual day before Superbowl but election on Jan 19 – not sure if they will announce results then or hold for NFL Honors Show evening Feb 6th (perhaps that whole event has been cancelled??)
New thread on the finalists here if you want to take a look. https://www.zoneblitz.com/2021/01/05/pro-football-hof-finalists-for-2021-class-named/