A couple weeks back, ProFootballReference.com, the most comprehensive database of football stats online, announced that they were adding unofficial sack totals to player stats from 1960 to 1981, after two researchers compiled the data utilizing box scores, game stories and film.
One of the researchers, Jack Turney, was quoted in this 2006 story about Michael Strahan’s career sack total vs Lawrence Taylor, who’s rookie season of 1981 isn’t counted amongst the official sack totals. Even in 2006, Turney had data back to 1970 for stats.
While no mention is made of the bogus Strahan single season sack record—bogus both because of the pathetic “sack” that set the record, and because the unofficial stats show that the record was actually 23 sacks, set by Al Baker in his 1978 rookie season—the article did mention the opinion that:
“Turney’s research undoubtedly helped Youngblood reach the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, 17 years after he left the game.”
Interesting, because when I first heard about the unofficial stats being published, on a local sports radio show, my thoughts (and the hosts, I believe) also immediately thought of another Hall of Fame candidacy—that of Minnesota Vikings Purple People Eater Jim Marshall.
Marshall is largely known for two things from his career—his Iron Man streak of 282 games played (and 270 consecutive starts), and famously scoring a safety for the San Francisco 49ers, running the wrong direction after picking up a fumble in a 1964 matchup. Interestingly, he is less known for holding the NFL record for most career fumble recoveries in a career, with 30—a stat that I have to admit forgetting about myself.
Perhaps less known about Marshall, though, is that he too was a prolific sacker of the quarterback—his Wikipedia page already credited him with 127 sacks unofficially, and the data from ProFootballReference.com puts him at 130.5 sacks—good for 22nd all-time (tied with Coy Bacon).
Ahead of Marshall on the unofficial list, only Julius Peppers (159.5), Terrell Suggs (139), DeMarcus Ware (138.5), Jared Allen (136), John Abraham (133.5), Leslie O’Neal (132.5), and Baker (131) are not in the Hall of Fame (along with Bacon). Peppers, Suggs, Ware and Allen seem likely to get in the Hall of Fame, while I have heard arguments made for Abraham and O’Neal to eventually make it too.
Many will argue that Marshall got that many sacks because of how long he played (18 seasons in the NFL), and because many of those seasons were played with Alan Page (148.5 sacks unofficially) and Carle Eller (133.5 sacks unofficially), both members of the Hall. And those people aren’t wrong—but he still got the sacks.
And that Iron Man streak—the current active leader for consecutive starts, Ndamukong Suh, would need to start every game for more than the next seven seasons to reach that mark, even with 17 game seasons –is frankly amazing. Especially playing in the trenches, in an era with less than stellar medical capabilities.
So will this new data from ProFootballReference.com make much difference in Marshall’s claim to a spot in Canton? Based on the previous unofficial count of 127 sacks, it only actually moved him up one spot—from 24th overall, behind Hall of Famer Claude Humphrey (130 sacks) and ahead of Hall of Famer Derrick Thomas (126.5). One Vikings blog points out that his comparatively paltry four seasons of 10+ sacks, 12 seasons of less than seven sacks, and career average of 6.5 sacks per year don’t compare favorably to current Viking Hall of Famers Carl Eller, Alan Page, Chris Doleman and John Randle–nor likely Hall of Famer Allen, or even not likely Hall of Famer Everson Griffen.
So maybe the data won’t help—even though sacks aren’t the only thing for defensive linemen (especially since they didn’t officially exist until 1981), and the abundance of 70’s Vikings already in the Hall may also continue to work against him.
But as all true homer fans will do, I will continue to bang the drum (or blow the Gjallarhorn) for Marshall until he gets that call.
I think it helps his case but don’t see it vaulting him (or Bacon, Baker) into upper tier of deserving seniors
Nice write up Tony! I saw him play the last quarter of his career. I would put another thing in lasting memories. He was pretty well neutralized by the Miami Dolphin’s Offensive Line in the Super Bowl at a time he was still very good. Perhaps a better showing in such a high profile games would of bolstered his case? Unfairly that may be something held against him because as we know many great players never make it to the Big game. The Oakland Raiders game should be more acceptable because he was about finished.
Whether he gets in or not I have no clue. I think only having two Pro Bowl appearances in 18 years is holding him back. If you wipe that away he would have an awful strong case. Question, is he more deserving than L.C. Greenwood who’s not in?
Here’s an interesting recall of that Super Bowl 8. Sorry Tony :)
https://goldenrankings.com/SuperBowl8-B.htm
I agree on the Pro Bowls probably limiting him, TonyP–especially since that’s back when Pro Bowls actually meant something, compared to today. I also do think that having two DL mates, and several other contemporaries already there also hurts him–how many guys can you put in from a team that ultimately wasn’t ever able to win the big one?
And no worries on those recaps–the last Vikings Super Bowl was a little over a year before I was born…now if you start posting recaps of the 98/09/18 NFC Championship Games, we might have issues… :-)
Its likely the lack of SBs, all decade and first team all pro has hurt his case, plus you also have Greenwood 2/6/all decade/4 SBs and Harvey Martin 1(3)/4/all decade/SB, SB MVP/1977 sack leader(20)/113 career sacks also in the senior pool-players at same position, same era
If Marshall had retired following the 1971 season, he would have had more of a case but from 72-79 he barely had 30 sacks, though he used his quickness well to disrupt QBs, which is why Bud Grant held onto him.
Grant liked his motor and kept him longer than he should have. The lack of accolades hurt but despite being smaller, still had a great career but I would put pass rushers like Brito, Katcavage, Gregory, Hardman, Martin, Bacon or Baker ahead of him. Still, counting postseason and competing with teammates for sacks, pressures and fumble recoveries, he has a case …
Interesting insight Brian. All good points as usual. Actually lack of Pro Bowls seems huge but I’d have to look back to see who his competition was to really pass judge judgement. The only time I recall three HOF D Linemen on one Team was the Rams with Deacon Jones, Merlin Olson and Jack Youngblood. And look how long it took for the third one to make it and he had 151 sacks. I’m thinking it’s not looking good for Marshall. lol He’ll probably get in next year now! :)
Suggs career is very similiar to Marshall. Considered by some people a defensive “compiler” who may have played way past his prime, it was smart though because he got a second ring with the Chiefs and a player should play as long as he can if he can contribute. According to John Turney however, he made alot of run stuffs at or behind the line of scrimmage, which shows he wasnt one-dimensional, like a Freeney or others, though I think Freeney will make the Hall to the eternal consternation of TonyP … haha
Yup, funny man!! LOL! You”d be right. :)
Tony, being a Viking fan, what did you think of DT/Shade Tackle Henry Thomas ?
He played alot of DT and had 93 career sacks but also played shade/nose on the running downs. A very underrated player while teammate John Randle got all the headlines and didnt really worry about the run. Pro Football Journal liked him alot as well.
Hank Thomas was kind of overshadowed by Keith Millard and Chris Doleman early and Randle & Doleman in later years with the Vikings—but Hank was kind of the key that made it work, I think. Doubt he would make the Hall—he’s not even in the Vikings Ring of Honor. Neither is Millard, actually.
Henry Thomas is not in wring of honor…? That needs to be corrected!
I agree Bill. I thought Thomas was an underrated player. He did his share of the dirty work as I recall but also got his share of sacks. Look at the number of tackles being over 100 for an interior linemen . I think he had great quickness and was very active. An impressive player who was overshadowed by John Randle’s superb play.
So shall we make our picks for senior contributor coach
Post of thread for class of 2022