The Pro Football Hall of Fame unveiled their list of 25 modern era players that are finalists to be inducted into the class of 2025 this morning. On the list include:
- Eric Allen, CB — 5th time as a semifinalist
- Jared Allen, DE — 5th time as a semifinalist
- Willie Anderson, T — 5th time as a semifinalist
- Anquan Boldin, WR — 4th time as a semifinalist
- Jahri Evans, G — 3rd time as a semifinalist
- Antonio Gates, TE — 2nd time as a semifinalist
- James Harrison, LB — 3rd time as a semifinalist
- Rodney Harrison, S — 4th time as a semifinalist
- Torry Holt, WR — 11th time as a semifinalist
- Luke Kuechly, LB — First time as a semifinalist
- Eli Manning, QB — First time as a semifinalist
- Robert Mathis, DE/LB — 4th time as a semifinalist
- Steve Smith Sr., WR — 4th time as a semifinalist
- Terrell Suggs, LB/DE — First time as a semifinalist
- Fred Taylor, RB — 6th time as a semifinalist
- Earl Thomas, DB — First time as a semifinalist
- Adam Vinatieri, PK — First time as a semifinalist
- Hines Ward, WR — 9th time as a semifinalist
- Ricky Watters, RB — 5th time as a semifinalist
- Reggie Wayne, WR — 6th time as a semifinalist
- Richmond Webb, T — First time as a semifinalist
- Vince Wilfork, DT — 4th time as a semifinalist
- Steve Wisniewski, G — 2nd time as a semifinalist
- Darren Woodson, S — 9th time as a semifinalist
- Marshal Yanda, G/T — First time as a semifinalist
Seven first time finalists made the cut, and Torry Holt is the most “veteran” of the group at 11 times as a semifinalist, a player that almost everyone seems to acknowledge belongs in the Hall, but continues to get caught up in a WR logjam.
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Dropping off the semi-final list from last year are Tiki Barber, Eddie George and London Fletcher.
Good to see Webb and Wisniewski make it.
Was surprised on Webb. Only surprised by WIsniewski because I kind would have thought he was in. Actually, same with Wilfork.
At least Webb can enter the conversation, no matter how brief. Glad Wiz gets a chance. Hoping Woodson can get elected before Thomas jumps ahead of him. Eli may help his cause but will probably keep a waiting queued modern from getting elected. Eric Allen is still hanging on.
Like Jack said on PFRA site, Bennett, N Smith and Coates will now enter the senior abyss.
The next cuts are 15, 10, 7 and 3-5 elected right?
Elected Wishlist
Ward
Woodson
Wisniewski
Gates
J Allen
Prediction
Gates
Kuechly
Holt
J Allen
yes we will see announcement of 15 modern finalists at end of Dec, and then when 50 member selection committee (voters) meets in-person in mid-Jan, all 15 are presented and discussed with vote down to 10 and then to 7..at which point each voter can vote for up to 5 to be elected, which requires 80% with min of 3 and max of 5 BUT with vote spitting very possible we could see (for first time in many years) 3 or 4 moderns elected.
Thanks Paul …
Could Vinny make the top 15?
very possible-I suspect all 10 returning class of 2024 finalists will return, plus Eli, Luke and AdamV-leaves 2 more open slots…
Just my opinion 3-4 moderns would be fine which would ensure a great modern group
the problem with 3 or 4 moderns is that it just delays election of deserving moderns, pushing them into the next year and for any player running out of time on the modern ballot it will get even harder, As I believe given what we have seen with recent modern finalists and likely to be the same for 2025, is that around 10 each year are deserving, only electing 3-4 while having 3 or more deserving first ballot added each year (which is going to be case 2026-2029) only makes it longer and harder to elect someone who is deserving-if they are why only elect 3-4 and cause more delays for those getting in one day anyways-simply no logic there. If large classes are the issue (which it is for many), then go 5 moderns+2 seniors+1coach/contributor (rotate)
My prediction for the 15 finalists
Eric Allen
Jared Allen
Willie Anderson
Jahri Evans
Antonio Gates
Torry Holt
Luke Kuechly
Eli Manning
Steve Smith Sr
Terrell Suggs
Adam Vinatieri
Reggie Wayne
Richmond Webb
Steve Wisniewski
Darren Woodson
I’m glad Richmond Webb and Steve Wisniewski made it
I’m surprised Kevin Williams didn’t make it
I think it’ll be primarily a clean up year and we won’t see any first ballot Hall of Famers
Guys I’ll be gone until Sunday I’m going to Napa to do wine tasting with my dad see you then
I’ll be back when andy gets back
my final 15 predictions:
1. CB Eric Allen 24F15
2. DE Jared Allen* 23F10 24F10
3. OT Willie Anderson*23F15 24F10
4. OG Jari Evans 24F15
5. TE Antonio Gates 24F10
6. S Rodney Harrison 24F15
7. WR Torry Holt*23F10 24F10
8. LB Luke Kuechy 1st ballot
9. QB Eli Manning 1st ballot
10. RB Fred Taylor 24F15
11. S Earl Thomas 1st ballot
12. K Adam Vinateri 1st ballot
13. WR Reggie Wayne*23F10 24F15
14. DT Vince Wilfork
15. S Darren Woodson*23F15 24F10
one noted omission from my list was OG Marshal Yanda-certainly deserves to be a finalist and perhaps he is..was just not sure if voters advanced another Guard, given their long history of ignoring and dismissing top candidates at that position. But perhaps I am wrong and he is in, with Thomas or Wilfork left off.
By depth, this is a very strong 1st year class. All six will be HOFers some day and so will Marshawn Lynch. That said, none appears a lock to be a 1st ballot guy. That said, many are better than the back of the final 11-15 from last year. Therefore, I think there is a pretty good chance that for the first time is a while we see several finalists from last year not make it back. With that said, here are my top 15 (not really a prediction as much as who I think are the most qualified).
(1) E. Allen; (2) J. Allen; (3) Anderson; (4) Evans; (5) Gates; (6) Holt; (7) Kuechly; (8) S. Smith; (9) Suggs; (10) Vinateri; (11) Wayne; (12) Webb; (13) Wisniewski; (14) Woodson; and (15) Yanda.
Final 7: (1) J. Allen; (2) Anderson; (3) Gates; (4) Holt; (5) Kuechly; (6) Wisniewski; and (7) Woodson
Elected: 3-5 of the above … I know this is a cop-out, but no one can really be sure with the new voting. That said, my top 5 would have been J. Allen, Gates, Holt, Kuechly, and Woodson.
I can’t see how SteveW jumps both Yanda and Evens into final 7
I dunno Paul … if Wiz can get to the top 15, anything can happen. I would have put Lynch in ahead of Watters but he is part of the queue.
ESPN reporting that Ralph Hay (not Kraft) is the contributor finalist
Wow that’s a surprise
Yeah, I just saw the ESPN story about Kraft. I expect it to be him every year, and it never happens. Gotta wonder if he’s really ticked off a lot of people. At this point, I’m not sure he gets in while living.
Ralph Hay is a fine choice although I’m always at a bit of a loss when it comes to contributors. I dont think there should be that many of them in the hall of fame and I definitely don’t like prioritizing them over players (particularly seniors). No problem with Hay as a founder of the league, but I kinda hate to see people wait for their chance and pass away before they make it. In that sense, kinda feel bad for Kraft and John Wooten.
I dont think Hay is a lock to make it in. Might be a lot of anger over the Kraft snub.
As for the modern semifinalists…no huge surprises. Really glad to see Richmond Webb advance. I think he at least deserves discussion. Feel the same way about Wisniewski (who I think belongs in the Hall…I’m less bullish about Webb but I’d be good with it). Really perplexed that Kevin Williams can’t gain traction. Just makes no sense to me. If it were up to me, he’d be in the final five. Also would’ve liked to see Neil Smith get some consideration. Disappointed that Fletcher didnt advance, and Barber as well (I’d take him over Watters or Taylor).
Honestly, although some are clearly more deserving than others, I don’t think any of the 25 would be outrageously bad selections.
I’d actually love to see Wisniewski or Webb get in this year but am expecting they won’t make the cut to 15. I have a feeling they’ll probably respect their queue and clear out one of the defensive backs near the end of their eligibility (Eric Allen or Woodson). It seems very up in the air though, with no really obvious first ballot guys. I’ll say Antonio Gates, Torry Holt, Jared Allen and Viniateri joining either Woodson or Eric Allen for the final five.
Jeff could that possibly mean we could get maybe 2 senior players elected
This leaves the possibility of Kraft and Belichick as competing finalists in 2026. Oh the drama.
I think Belichick will still coach but maybe we overestimated Kraft getting elected? It just doesnt seem to happen, so now I believe only the three seniors get elected. Would the voters really put in Holmgren, Shanahan or Reeves over a player? Could Coughlin get voted in to also help Eli ?
I like and endorse Ralph Hay but really dont believe he can overtake a senior.
New Prediction
Sharpe
Jacoby
K Anderson
The BRC will want a safe, reasonable pick for election over a coach/contributor and Jacoby could be that guy but we will see.
Could Coughlin get voted in to also help Eli ?” Don’t see that happening or benefit if it did.
And I think contributor BRP made a strategic error in selecting Hays (although I do think he’s deserving) as they knew there would be push back from some of the 50 voters and now under this system of 5 candidates with voters submitting ballots for just 3, could be many voters pissed at Kraft passed over again will just decide not to have Hayes among their 3. Its a voting system where the BRPs need to bring their strongest candidates with aim that they will get enough support from the 50 or it will be like 2024 all over again where it only takes 10 to sink chances (as was case for both Parker and Powell).
And I agree its possible outcome here increases chances of 2 seniors-but again vote splits among the 3 seniors is also a huge risk as what if the 150 total votes go 50 for MikeH/MikeS, 41 Sharpe, 36 senior#2, 18 senior#3, Hays 5 -just 2 of 5 get elected. I suspect MikeH or MikeS would get enough votes to surpass #2 senior, but vote splits could harm seniors#2 #3.
Increasingly makes we wonder if the senior BRP thinks through the various outcomes, selecting 3 strong viable candidates may not be best approach as could split votes-possible no seniors are elected, very likely dooms having two elected. Like coach 50, senior #1-38, senior #2-32, #3-24, Hays 6
100% agreed Paul The BRP (contributors) messed up by nominating a guy who probaly will get a lot of no votes based on the fact that they were expecting kraft
The most worthy IMO are:
Eric Allen, CB — 5th time as a semifinalist
Jared Allen, DE — 5th time as a semifinalist
Antonio Gates, TE — 2nd time as a semifinalist
Terrell Suggs, LB/DE — First time as a semifinalist
Hines Ward, WR — 9th time as a semifinalist
Close behind: Adam Vinatieri and Darren Woodson
Agreed with you Tony P on the Following Eric Allen Jared Allen Gates and Suggs i go back and forth on ward to be honest with you
Eric Allen only has two more chances as a modern era. He might get that late push like Sam Mills did a few years ago.
Last year eligibility modern era:
2026 – E.Allen, R.Watters, S.Wisniewski
2027 – R.Webb
2028 – D.Woodson
hopefully some of these guys get the late push that they deserve boknows
If one looks at the 2024 modern finalists and add first ballot additions in 2026-2028, and consider the math of a modern election system (select only 5 out of 7 and all 5 need 80%) plus would seem to be that its going to be really hard for those players, at least Allen and Woodson have already made final 15 (and Woodson made final 10 in 2024) so they look well positiones, If Webb can squeeze into final 15 this election it would put him in better spot, not so sure Watters and SWis have a shot at this point.
Agreed Paul Most likely Sw and Watters fall into the seniors pool
I don’t think Richmond Webb has ever made a list. Crazy he’s made it so far on first recognition.
Despite great athletic ability, Webb was underrated due to the Dolphins inability to commit to the running game and Marino’s fast release of the football. He was a great pass protector and should be recognized, though was never aggressive enough in the running game. Had he had a nasty streak like Erik Williams, he would have went in first ballot but the Dolphins believed in throwing nearly every play.
I’m back from my trip to Napa
If it’s true and I hope it isn’t I can’t believe Robert Kraft got snubbed again
I’m happy for Ralph Hay but if we saw what happened with Buddy Parker then imagine what will happen with Ralph Hay the voters have never heard of him and the selection committee as Rick Gosselin said is getting younger not older I think he won’t be elected
I really want to see Robert Kraft with a gold jacket when I go to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame induction and I hope he gets elected before 2028
I used to comment here a few years ago when Webb was inexplicably omitted from the prelims list. A terrible oversight.
I doubt he makes it by 2027 but he would be a good Seniors candidate in the future. As would Wisniewski once Jacoby and Kuechenburg are hopefully elected.
Brian Wolf: Remeber when we would hear for years that miami was going to commit to the running game and it never happened
Im trying to remember and see if you can Help me out with this one Paul but didnt there use to be a rule in which the last two players cut from the final round of voting were automatic finalists the next year
Cooney just published a letter from Borges about Tyrer’s candidacy. Worth a read because of the information on Tyrer, but it also contains a lot of clues on the 9 finalists. It talks about Turney’s “awards” list of the senior candidates, noting that Tyrer tops the list. It also states that the 2nd place player (Grantham) is not a finalists. It then notes that Baughan and Wistert are the 2nd highest “finalists” with 42. If true, this also means that Meador, Johnson, and Powell failed to advance to the final 9. Finally, it notes the 3rd (really 4th) highest “finalist” is Hayes with (really 37). That would mean that Kenn and Emerson did not make the final 9. Assuming all of this information is accurate, and there is no reason to believe it isn’t), we “know” for of the nine finalists: Tyler, Hayes, Baughan, and Wistert. We can safely assume Craig, Sharpe, and Anderson (all well below Hayes on the list) also made it because they have consistently topped the HOF senior candidates. That leaves two open slots. Strange the HOF hasn’t made the final 9 publicly available, but at least some names are leaking out.
“Im trying to remember and see if you can Help me out with this one Paul but didnt there use to be a rule in which the last two players cut from the final round of voting were automatic finalists the next year”
I do not recall such a rule or any others that allowed for automatic finalists, if we are talking about moderns the last round was from 10 to 5 and vote counts were never revealed, even to the voters-hence no way of knowing who were the last two out before the final 5.
Good Morning, Everyone! Thinks this was a very good list, Paul. My moderns I think will be some form of Luke K., Antonio Gates, Jared Allen, Torri Holt and Darren Woodson. I do not think Hay will be getting in over Senior, and depending who the coach finalist is I think either Mike S or Mike H one of those will. Seniors I still think that Roger Craig, Ken Anderson and Joe Jacoby are my picks, but one will not get in. For those who were on X , I have cancelled out my X, just too much crap and drama. I will miss only the HOF conversations on there, but was all I kept it for. So, glad this is here to can still join in the discussion. #Saintmaria01
daughter of Clay Matthews Jr is suggesting on Twitter he “survived three rounds of voting this year), so that could leave us with:
Tyler, Hayes, Baughan, Wistert, Matthews Jr?, Craig?, Sharpe?, and Anderson = 8?? Perhaps Lewis or Jacoby?
Interesting find Paul. Matthews jumping the queue is an interesting development.
I’m biased toward Jacoby, but I have sneaking sensation that the OT cancelled each other out—Kunz, Kenn, Jacoby, etc. Hope not, but that seems like a concern.
On the other hand, Lewis would be a fantastic finalist.
I’ll wait for the official release of the final 9 seniors before I comment further
Fascinating note from Borges on Tyrer. If Tyrer ends up as one of the three finalists, it’s going to be very interesting indeed (and I guess if I were a betting man, I’d say he’ll be denied along with Hay…but you never know. According to his play and to the bylaws, he’s a hall of famer, period. But we all know its not that simple). Even if Tyrer’s actions can be placed in the context of CTE, I don’t think there’s a desire to draw much attention to that (I recall reading somewhere about voters even feeling some hesitation and discomfort about Seau
Also really good insight on the other likely finalists. I still think there will be a few duds in there – probably Plunkett and/or Banks if not both, and I firmly expect one of them to get elected.
Why is it the Pro Football Hall of Fame has announced the coach semi finalists and contributor semi finalists but not the senior semi finalists
I think its just the timing of the various deadlines for ballots to be submitted, coach and contributor selection process started sooner, in fact they both already met a few weeks ago and have already selected their finalists..senior BRP had not yet even finished its voting on semi-finalists (which is now complete and their meeting to pick 3 finalists is very soon)..suspect we finally get senior 9 semifinalists in coming days..understand that Hall is holding results of 5 finalists from BRPs to release as group in a few more weeks as they await senior finalists to be decided.
Justin, if its okay with you, I will ask Turney and Crippen to try to confirm those possible seven senior players?
Eight, my bad … if Paul is right on Matthews Jr.
BW: Certainly ok with me. I read between a few lines, but it was there for everyone to see (or read).
If accurate, I’d be pleased with some combination of Hayes, Wistert, Baughan, Tyrer, and Sharpe. Ok with Matthews. Disappointed with Anderson and Craig.
Mystery Player: hoping for Jacoby, but would also be pleased with Lewis, Kuechenberg, Kunz, or Martin. (This assumes that my sleuthing is right that Meador, Powell, Kenn, and Emerson didn’t make it—all of whom would be great).
do you mean tyrer paul
BTW one other thought. Justin ill disagree with you on Ken Anderson but Surprisingly i will agree with you on Roger Craig
If Tyrer were to advance this far, after what happened with Seau as well … they might as well elect him.
Except voters don’t care about anyone’s health or personal history unless you are Steve McMichael..I understand the sympathy there, yet there was none for Meador or Baugham (or Howley at decade ago before his memory was stolen from him)-but then again their families were not using their advance ages and existing poor health in organized promotional effort directed at voters…like it or not, agree with me or not, find the comments and truth distasteful…those are the facts and reality of recent elections.
“Ok with Matthews. Disappointed with Anderson and Craig.” That’s a very odd statement there..Matthews at best was above average LB for few seasons of career….average career for most of a long career… Both Anderson and Craig had more peak seasons, higher peaks, more honors and achievements–to suggest Matthews is more deserving (or one would have no issue with his election) while being disappointed with Anderson or Craig is a hilarious assertion
Paul: I’ve been consistent in my opinion for years. QBs and RBs are already vastly over-represented in the HOF. There are no players at either position currently in the senior pool that I support for election. Here are the % of HOF players at each major position group:
QB – 8.99% (34 of 378)
RB – 12.96% (49 of 378)
TE – 2.38% (9 of 378)
WR – 10.05% (38 of 378)
C – 3.70% (14 of 378)
OG – 5.82% (22 of 378)
OT – 8.47% (32 of 378)
DE – 6.35% (24 of 378)
DT – 5.56% (21 of 378)
ILB – 4.76% (18 of 378)
OLB – 4.50% (17 of 378)
CB – 5.56% (21 of 378)
S – 5.29% (20 of 378)
ST – 1.06% (4 of 378)
These numbers already establish my point, but they utterly fail to consider that QBs and RBs take up the smallest % of positions in the starting line-up and rosters (especially since Coryell and Gibbs popularized the one back set). In short, if we weighted positions equally, one would expect to have 3 times as may WRs in the HOF as QBs and RBs. You would also expect to have twice as many OGs, OTs, OLBs, Ss, CBs, etc.
However, positions (obviously) are not all created equal. QBs impact the sport far more than any other position. RBs, on the other hand, have long been overvalued, but that is a discussion for another time. But if you accept that QBs and RBs are more important, then there should be more QBs and RBs in the HOF, but I think the numbers are already too heavily skewed without the additions of either Anderson or Craig.
Anderson played from 1971 to 1986. An era when passing numbers were actually down compared to the time period before and after. Yet, if elected, Anderson would become the 12th QB who played in both 1971 and 1973 to make the HOF. For context, there were only 26 starting QBs either season. Therefore, we are talking about nearly half the league having HOF QBs. That screams over-representation. Now there is a counterargument. By the end of Anderson’s career–1981 and 1982–there were only 4 starting QBs in the HOF (Bradshaw, Stabler, Fouts, and Montana). However, the fact still remains that Anderson is at best a borderline candidate. I accept that he is the “best eligible QB not in the HOF” (at least until the borderline modern guys like Philip Rivers become eligible). But someone has to be have that title. If we elect Anderson, then we’ll be arguing about Roman Gabriel. In the end, Anderson’s 4 pro bowls are very low for HOF QBs (half as many as Rivers, for example), but the biggest knock is the donut hole in the middle of his career. I understand there were injuries, but availability is an important “ability.” And before you point out the comparisons to Kurt Warner, I agree. But I think Warner was a borderline candidate too that was indifferent toward (far from an embarrassment, but not a compelling case).
Regarding Craig, his honors and stats would be on the very low end of HOF RBs. Here is a quick comparison of his contemporaries:
Dickerson: 6 pro bowls, 5 all pros, 13,259 rushing yards
Allen: 6 pro bowls, 2 all pros, 12, 243 rushing yards (despite being in Al Davis’ doghouse)
Craig: 4 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 8189 rushing yards.
Gerald Riggs: 3 pro bowls, 8188 rushing yards.
George Rogers: 2 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 7176 rushing yards.
No one has ever make the case that Riggs and Rogers were HOFers (despite both being excellent for short bursts in the golden age of NFL RBs). Yet, Craig’s numbers look a lot more like them than Dickerson’s or Allen’s. I’ll admit that when receiving yards are included, Craig distinguishes himself a bit more from Riggs and Rogers, although he remains well behind both Dickerson and Allen.
Finally, we are only having this conversation because Craig played for the 49ers. Put him in San Diego or Cincinnati, and no one would be pushing his candidacy—we know this for certain as no one is pushing James Brooks:
Craig: 4 pro bowls, 8189 rushing yards, 4.1 y/c, 56 rushing TDs, 4911 receiving yards, 8.7 y/c, 17 receiving TDs
Brooks: 4 pro bowls, 7962 rushing yards, 4.7 y/c, 49 rushing TDs, 3621 receiving yards, 9.5 y/c, 30 receiving TDs.
In short, Craig far from laps the “non-HOFers” from his era. He is a borderline candidate who played for some great championship teams in San Francisco. To me, he is James Brooks with a better QB and Coach. Not Dickerson or Allen.
That said, we need a lot less borderline QBs and RBs and a lot more borderline OL, WR, and defensive players in the HOF. These positions are vastly underrepresented compared to QBs and RBs. If Matthews gets inducted, I won’t be overjoyed, but I’ll accept that another borderline defensive player got inducted rather than another borderline QB or RB. To me, that is a step in the right direction, although I would prefer lots of other candidates.
If you think that is a hilarious assertion, we just have very different opinions about what the HOF should look like. But I guess I’m glad I gave you a laugh during the holiday season.
Oh I should have noted that the position numbers include Bednarik as both a Center and LB. Could fairly include him in one or the other, but that results in each being slightly overrepresented.
Yea but let’s elect an average LB in Matthews Jr…..
Paul: We can disagree without being disagreeable. That said, an average linebacker doesn’t play the worst games at the position in history (and the third most of any defensive player behind only Bruce Smith and Darrell Green). If he was only average, Cleveland would have cut him for a cheaper alternative and Atlanta would never have signed him in free agency. Calling Matthews “average” is a hyperbolic statement that is entirely unnecessary to defend your position on Anderson or Craig (which he didn’t actually do). That said, there is a huge gulf between “average” and “HOFer.”
You seem to think he falls well short of HOFer. I just think it is a much closer case. For what it is worth (which may be nothing), the media of the 1970s-90s agreed with you, but the scouting services think he was a HOFer. I’m in between. If you want to read the case for Matthews as a HOFer, John Turney did a nice write up earlier this year.
In short, Matthews isn’t a HOFer yet. He may never be a HOFer. But he was much better than an average LB. Clearly HOVG, already in Cleveland’s ring of honor (I attended that game coincidentally). Close-ish call, but for me, a much more compelling case than either Craig or Anderson.
Great analysis Justin, especially comparing Craig to Brooks but Craig is ahead of him–and closer to the HOF–because he was a better blocker and more crucial in postseason games. Craig delivered in the biggest games and could have been MVP in two of the three SB games. Rice had the big plays in the 1988/89 SB but all of Craigs catches were on crucial downs that helped them also march 92 yards for the winning TD. Yes, Brooks didnt have Montana but Esiason had ability as well but was too inconsistent. Unlike Brooks though, Craig was struck down by injury in his eighth season, similar to Davis and Foreman. He tried to hang on but wasnt the same. These things happen, but once Davis got elected–based on postseason numbers–it helped the case for Craig.
Dickerson and Allen had better numbers because of longevity in the case of Allen, who never really got hurt and Dickerson was a great runner with big plays but a one-dimensional player, who fumbled often and never did anything in postseason. Thats the problem with the HOF voting. They look too often at pure running numbers rather than the total dimensional player. I watched both runners in their prime and would have chosen Craig on my team over Dickerson. Even Dorsett was a better receiver than Dickerson, and he was also known for big plays and running numbers.
Your Wide Receiver numbers actually surprised me. I felt their election pct would be closer to the running backs but with the rules changes and handcuffing of defenses, it wont be long before the numbers catch up, but its so hard to distinguish many newer players, when some older players–who played when the game was rougher–cant get traction.
The skill positions as we all know, dominate the HOF and we cant expect the other positions–especially on the interior–to ever catch up.
I have noticed as well, that football families seem to get some weight towards election consideration. Eli could join brother Peyton within the next four years and so could Clay Matthews joining Bruce. Sterling might get in this year, joining Shannon and we already know about the Kelce brothers. Coming from a football family can definitely help in promoting a case.
BW: Eye of the beholder I guess. I would take Dickerson (notwithstanding the fumbles) every single day over Craig. Not a strong receiver, but he could take every touch to the end zone. If only he had a QB and Coach who valued the passing game. Might have made him even more dangerous.
Regarding the WRs, it is one of the primary reasons I did the research. To listen to the voters and historians like Turney, you would think the HOF was overrun with unworthy WRs. That simply isn’t the case. In fact, the only era where the WRs are even potentially overrepresented is the late 60s through 70s — one of the reasons I’m not crazy about the Taylors and Harold Jackson as candidates. But we need many more 50s, early-60s, 80s, 90, and 00s WRs. Guys like Shofner, Powell, Benton, Ellard, maybe Morgan, definitely Holt and Smith, etc. The Panel seems to think there are too many, when in fact there are too few.
The crazy thing about Dickerson was that he was really just dominant with the Rams. Wasnt nearly the same with the Colts, Falcons and Raiders. I know he was dangerous every time he touched the ball, similar to Bo Jackson but seemed to be motivated more by money than being the best runner ever.
I know he didnt have the same offensive line after leaving the Rams, and stayed on the Colts line to be better but his career had peaked by 1989, similar to Craig yet with far more running yardage.
Dickerson was pretty doggone good for the Colts in 87, 88 and 89 though. Definitely a shadow of himself from 90-93 though.
Lots of interesting points raised by Paul and Justin on Matthews, Craig and Anderson. I feel like Craig maybe passes the eye test for me, though I’d like for him to have a few more dominant years. Just a great all-purpose back who could really run over you when healthy, came up big in the super bowl and was the first 1000/1000 rushing and receiving guy, I believe. I have to admit that, even though I was a kid who didn’t know that much, I expected Matthews to be in the hall someday when he was an active player. I’ve read about his impressive Proscout rankings and honestly if I wanted to pick a longevity guy from this group, I’d pick Matthews over Marshall, who tends to get more attention for games and seasons played. I guess Anderson gets the “best QB not in the Hall” designation, but there always has to be one of those.
I suppose if I’m, say, making a list of nine seniors up for the hall, it’s hard to elevate them quite that high. For me, I think Craig comes the closest.
btw have to agree with Paul’s comment on McMichael. If I’m not mistaken, both Meador and Baughan died last year right after McMichael was named a finalist. I sympathize with McMichael but it made me a little uncomfortable. He leapfrogged a lot of better players (including Meador and Baughan) who had waited longer, and of course if you’re on social media you had an inkling that it was coming. I feel good for McMichael and his family and dont think it’s a travesty that he’s in, but the way it unfolded just seemed warped (and I view him and his teammate Jim Covert as two of the weakest inductees, both jumping the line out of nowhere).
BW and Jeff: Dickerson was better than pretty good in Indy. He had a 1000 yards in 8 games in 1987, led the league in rushing in 1988, and had a 1300 yard season in 1989. Great player. His very real interest in being fairly paid as a generational talent shouldn’t be a knock against him, especially pre-free agency.
Justin did you mean most instead of worst on terms of Clay Matthews , and for the Record Justin I do support Matthews for the hall 100%
Dickerson had his best year in Indy, his first season after being traded, I believe. He did do well in 1988 and 89 but his longest carry was for 41 yards in 1988 and only 21 yrds in 1989. Yes, his blocking was not the same in Indy but neither were the explosive plays he had with the Rams. Also, the carries took their toll. Simply overworked like Campbell and George.
Look, I agree, he was a great runner, as I watched him kill my Cowboys in a 1985 playoff game–one of his few decent postseason games–but due to heavy usage, he took alot of third downs off to rest, where Craig would have blocked or caught passes. His coaches were at fault for the heavy workload but thats what he was paid to do, a different era than today, where its usually a running back committee, which Hank Stram believed in. Bill Walsh as well, where Craig had to share carries with Tyler, Ring and other backs.
Bill Walsh believed that Craig was a better receiver than many wide receivers playing and felt that Craig would always be open for Montana or Young if the pocket ever broke down. Only Marcus Allen was equal as a receiving back at that time and Craigs workout sessions inspired Jerry Rice into doing him even better. Dickerson was of course, a better runner but not better player … haha, okay … I will stop.
RE: yes. Sorry for the typo. Fat thumbs. According to Turney, Vlay Matthew’s played the *MOST* games at linebackers in NFL history.
Justin
Its ok Justin for the record if Matthews got in this year it wouldnt bother me at all for many reasons
perhaps we finally get the 9 senior semi-finalists this week??????
I emailed the Pro Football Hall of Fame asking when the senior semi finalists will be released and they told me depends on some factors still in flux
Probably ballot counting andy
Robert: not ballot counting because the committee members know the finalists. Just hasn’t been made public for some reason.
Its official …
Baughan
Sharpe
Tyrer
Holmgren
Hay
The other six seniors?
What did I miss?
The other six considered
K Anderson
Kooch
Hayes
Wistert
Morgan
Lewis
I feel only Sharpe will get elected along with Holmgren … doubtful 4-5. Could Baughan get in over Hay?
I would put in Tyrer but it wont happen
I agree with Brian-very good chance that vote splits means Baughan and Tyrer both don’t get in as they fail to reach 80%, and predicting Hay also falls short of 80%..which would see just 2 of five elected-Sharpe and Holmgren, which meets the intention of the Hall and those opposed to big classes.. and 15 modern finalists to be announced on NFL Network, Sat Dec 28th….
biggest surprise to me-was that Craig was not among 9 senior semi-finalists (yet Morgan was???)
The nine senior finalists were: Baughan, Sharpe, Tyrer, Anderson, Hayes, Kuechenberg, Lewis, Morgan, and Wistert.
Solid list. Surprised by Morgan, but he does fit exactly in the “dead era” for HOF WRs in mid 1980s.
I like the chances of all three seniors. Tyrer v. Holmgren will be really interesting.
If Baughan gets elected, the seniors committee would have admitted LBs in three straight elections. I would propose it would be time to move on to the OL–Kuechenberg, Kenn, Kunz, and Jacoby would still be waiting even if Tyrer is elected.
Wow Justin, you were correct on 6 of 8 choices!
Kooch, Lewis and Morgan over Matthews and Craig …
Actually, Morgan doesnt represent the dead-ball era. He was a rookie in 1977. He took advantage of the rules changes in 1978 but there is no way I would have put him in the final 9. Talk about jumping the queue!
Wistert and Kooch are getting closer but we will see … K Anderson has to be agonizing …
BW: Morgan is a star of the mid-1980s (making pro bowls in 1986 and 1987), which is what I meant by playing in the “dead” era for HOF WRs. I think the only HOFs in teh mid-1980s are Largent, Lofton, Monk, and Rice (might be missing someone without my spreadsheet at work). Guys like Roy Green, Al Toon, Gary Clark, Duper, and Clayton were all very good, but so far have been judged not to be HOFers (mostly correctly).
That said, I agree that I would not have Morgan in my top 9.
Cooney is reporting the cut down votes:
7-9: Hayes, Kuechenberg, Wistert
4-6: Anderson, Lewis, Morgan
1-3 (finalists): Baughan, Sharpe, and Tyrer
Also reporting that 4 voters have already said they will not vote for Tyrer, which frankly is mind-numbing. Mental illness is not a choice, and certainly not a reason to punish someone.
Let’s wait and see what happens with the voting before we make any assumptions or overreactions
Robert: Fair point, and thank you. Just reacting to any of the 50 voters being so closed minded. If that was the case, probably time to get new voters.
Youre right Justin … outstanding receivers in that decade but not alot of HOF players. Reed is also part of that group. I would actually go for Clark or Chandler over Morgan but he did have a great career. Happy for Baughan, who might get in but we will see if the voters give him his chance?
Holmgren will take votes away from Tyrer and Baughan I believe and the voters wont care about Hay. Please voters, put the seniors in!
If there’s enough of a sense of resistance to Tyrer’s candidacy, I could see it being a Sharpe-Baughan-Holmgren class. It’s possible Tyrer would have had more of a shot under the old rules with the straight up-down vote.
Just remember its now a process intended to decrease number of elected, 3 is the max (out of 5) and math could give us just 1 or 2.
Most of the 50 voters did not cover the seniors, few even know who Hay is…by far clearly MikeH is the favorite..then you end up with 3 seniors fighting for 2 slots but again math could mean only one gets the 80%…Tyrer and Baughan could split votes and neither get 80?
A reminder, this is essentially the same group of 50 who just rejected Powell and Parker-keep that in mind when one thinks about chances for Tyrer,Baughan and Hay PLUS account that there now no direct uncontested path to election for any of these five finalists
With Baughan’s numerous second team All-Pro selections, he should get voted in, even with these voters, so now I believe it will be Sharpe, Baughan and Holmgren. I would be okay with that …
My thoughts
I can’t believe Robert Kraft got snubbed again
I’m happy for Ralph Hay but if we saw what happened with Buddy Parker then imagine what will happen with Ralph Hay the voters have never heard of him and the selection committee as Rick Gosselin said is getting younger not older I think he won’t be elected
I really want to see Robert Kraft with a gold jacket when I go to Canton in 2028 for Tom Brady’s Hall of Fame induction and I hope he gets elected before 2028
I’m was right about Mike Holmgren being the coach finalist
I’m happy for Maxie Baughan it’s just too bad he died last year and won’t be here to enjoy it if he gets elected
I’m also happy for Sterling Sharpe hope he gets to join his brother Shannon
I have mixed feelings about Jim Tyrer what he did was wrong but he was suffering from CTE
With the failure of the senior committee to elect a pre 1960s candidate I think it’s clear that even expanding to three seniors isn’t going to work for pre 1960s candidates such as Lavvie Dilweg Verne Lewellen Ox Emerson Cecil Isbell and Al Wistert the only way they’re going to get in is via a special election for pre 1960s candidates with voters like Rick Gosselin and Clark Judge and historians like Bill Belichick Chris Willis John Turney and Ken Crippen like the Blue Ribbon Panel that elected the Centennial Class
I’m working on a letter to Jim Porter asking that he have a special election for pre 1960s candidates
I’m pleased with the final three (and largely with the final 9) and very happy to have been wrong (I predicted Sharpe, Banks and Plunkett). That said, I do not think Tyrer will make it in, nor do I think Ralph Hay will make it. Sharpe is a shoe-in, I think (though I’d rank him third of the three, honestly). Baughan is very deserving but I think he needs to get lucky for it to happen (watch them do something weird now like elect Hay and not Holmgren).
I feel really sad about Tyrer. If his family is lobbying for this, I feel like voters should be a little more open-minded about it but maybe I’m wrong. I think Baughan and Hay will just be automatic nays for a younger pool of voters who just don’t care very much about what happened before 1980 (or inevitably, 1990). I think that’s a real disservice to the hall and to the history of the game. It already seems absurd to me that you’d look at that list of nine and advance Stanley Morgan but not Al Wistert. Anyway, I hope in the end that they’ll surprise me. I’d be thrilled if at least Baughan makes it.
I think challenge Baughan faces is potential split of voters with Tyrer – and neither gets 80% although both are deserving this process doesn’t favor them
Can anyone explain to me why Tyrer yes and sharper no.
In my world murder is worse than rape.
Happy about hay, and to a lesser extent Baughan. But doubt either will get the nod.
Think Sharpe and Holmgren get it and tyrer if enough people either follow the rules or condone murder. I actually think tyrer being a murderer will help him with some voters who refuse to vote for those who they never saw play because they will correctly attribute him being a murderer as the reason he wasn’t elected as opposed to football. Baughan I’m afraid will get the parker/powell treatment.
As others have mentioned Tyrer was likely suffering from CTE and had other misfortunes in his life; Sharper appears to have been a serial offender which would point to a core character flaw. I wrestle with the circumstances surrounding Tyrer and other comparable cases here: https://www.morganwick.com/2024/10/cantonmetrics-2025-quarterfinalists/
I wonder why they announced the senior coach and contributor finalists this week I thought it wasn’t going to be until next week
Who knows-all new steps in the process plus more series of announcements, could be it was just time or perhaps they feared more leaks (as was case for contributor finalist)
As to Tyrer, there is also a view held by many that there is no scientific basis for linkage between CTE (plus we actually do not know if Tyrer had it) and violent behavior. His case is a complicated one and his chances are actually reduced under new process compared to if he had made it as senior in elections past, again split voting between Tyrer and Baughan is a real possibility in which neither reaches 80%.
Although it was bold and I see why it happened, I’m now thinking Tyrer’s selection was a bit of a waste. Seems like the writing is on the wall for rejection (I can’t imagine the NFL or the Hall likes the tenor of coverage it’s getting, and I saw Justin’s note about at least four voters saying they won’t vote for him. Doesnt take many more no votes). Would it have been better to advance someone with a stronger shot?
On the other hand, I’m truly hoping that if Tyrer is sunk it means Baughan might have a better chance but I think the larger problem there is lack of interest. I wonder how many of the voters outside of the senior committee have any clue who Maxie Baughan is. I just dont see him making it. Holmgren and Sharpe are locks, I’d say.
In a strange way, like I suggested on the PFRA site, maybe its set up for Holmgren and Sharpe to go in together with no one else? Unlike Powell, where there is an AFL bias amongst voters–especially early AFL stars–Baughan was an established NFL star, so I believe the voters will defer to the BRC/senior committee.
First off, kudos to the voters who have brought forth 3 great senior finalists this year!
I don’t know that anyone has specifically mentioned it here about Tyrer, but it seems like some new information came out about him this year after Ron Borges tracked down a physician that saw him 3 days before the murder-suicide occurred.
This was the doctor’s testimony:
Some of the most interesting pieces of the letter come from Dr. Douglas Paone, who saw Tyrer three days prior to the murder-suicide. Tyrer was compelled to visit the doctor by his wife, who told Paone, “There’s something terribly wrong with Jim.”
Tyrer claimed he suffered from “headaches that often left him unable to think.” Asked if he felt depressed, the former Chiefs O-Lineman told the doctor, “No. It’s worse than that.”
What happened in the ensuing days haunted Paone, who says that given what we know now, Tyrer was presenting symptoms of CTE.
“His symptoms check all the (CTE) boxes,” he told Borges. “The clinical presentation. Mental status. History of head trauma. Headaches. Lethargy. Irrational decision making. You couldn’t ever pick a person that had a better presentation of the disease. As an internist, I have to make diagnosis without slides and without scans. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, water runs off its back and its name is Daffy, it’s not a zebra. He had CTE. No doubt in my mind.”
I could be off, but I think that prior to this year, there was no real indication that Tyrer’s tragic situation could have been CTE-related (even if it was an easy speculation to make). I wouldn’t have expected him to gain THIS much momentum toward induction though based on one new testimony, so him getting 80% doesn’t seem that far fetched.
I agree that Sharpe probably has the best chance of the 3, mostly because of recency bias. I would take all 3 seniors over Holmgren and Hay. Those 2 have good credentials in comparison to the other nominees in their categories, so they are absolutely deserving to be finalists. I don’t see either of them as can’t miss candidates though.
I don’t think nominating Tyrer is a waste by any means. He hasn’t been given a shot in front of this committee of voters, and on post-season awards, and credentials alone, he’s arguably the best player in the Senior Pool. I’d rather the senior committee swing for the fences than throw a 4-time Pro Bowler in there like Anderson, Lewis or Morgan.
I can understand Anderson to a degree because he is at least the clear frontrunner at the QB position, but I have no idea why Lewis and Morgan are getting such a push. They both scream Hall of Very Good to me.
The problem with swing for the fences approach for Tyrer under the new process is the situation it can create with 5 candidates are pitted against one another for just slots, he’s certainly deserving and qualified but against 4 others and needing 80% is he electable is the question…..
I agree that Tyrer probably is the strongest candidate available. Perhaps Wistert is above him but not many more. And according to the rules, that’s all that should matter. But we all know that voters aren’t going to operate that way and I can’t really blame them. I do think there’s a high probability Tyrer had CTE and clearly wasn’t himself, but we also don’t know for certain and that will probably be a bone of contention (and I also remember that when Aaron Hernandez was diagnosed with pretty severe CTE, doctors and investigators were pretty clear that it shouldn’t be used as an excuse. I bet that names like Hernandez and even OJ will come up and that will not help Tyrer’s case). With 50 voters, I guess you only need 11 to tank a senior and supposedly there are already four no votes.
And yeah Paul, you’re right – I really do not like the new rules. Baughan for example would’ve probably been a lock had he been a finalist last year or any other year, but I expect he’ll get eliminated under this scenario. That really stinks, as he is on my personal short list of senior favorites. I’ll be shocked if Tyrer gets in, pleasantly surprised if Baughan (or Hay) gets in…and shocked if Holmgren and Sharpe don’t get in.
Also agree about Morgan and to some degree Lewis. It isn’t that I don’t see the case for them or would have a big problem if they were elected (I’d say they were both underrated) but I have a lot of trouble putting them ahead of so many more deserving players (I guess I could say the same for Anderson). It does scream recency bias. That said, I do kinda like Lewis the most of those three…but I’d rather have Craig, another 4 time pro bowler, in there.
Paul you wrote about Tyrer “His case is a complicated one”
I don’t think it is complicated in the slightest, if only football matters he is a slam dunk pick and possibly the most worthy player on this years ballot (Hay belongs much more but that is a whole other story) , if character matters Tyrer doesn’t belong anywhere near the hall of fame. If character doesn’t matter than Sharper the rapist scum clearly belongs as the best DB not in the hall and less of a evil human being than Tyrer, and the accused racist Buddy Parker should have made it last year (racism is certainly less of a crime than murder and rape).
Jeff I like some of the new rules but not all
Most likely we get Baughan and Sharpe still have my doubts about Holmgren and Hay
Robert doubts about Holmgren how come I can understand your doubts about Hay but why Holmgren he has a lot of winning seasons and a Super Bowl win
It is a very complicated case as there are differing views as to whether he had CTE and whether that can cause violent behavior… plus certainly what voters read, hear and know before going into the selection meeting can not be controlled by the Hall. Yep rules say that they are not to consider off-the field in the presentations and discussions during that meeting..but what the thoughts and in minds of voters could certainly be a factor-unspoken and unacknowledged. Could be a number of voters say nothing but check 3 other names on their ballot, votes are not revealed so no would would know nor do voters need to state or justify their ballot selections. Voters are human and the fact that he murdered his wife is going to influence some of them-and only takes 11 out of 50 to push him below the required 80%.
And lets remember folks these 50 voters elected Steve McMichael in class of 2024-you can’t tell me that his “off field” health and compassion on the part of many voters was not a factor-an unspoken one but clearly had an emotional impact on the voters.
Oh after Sharpe, I would given next best odds for election to Holmgren
“If character doesn’t matter than Sharper the rapist scum clearly belongs as the best DB not in the hall ”
he’s far from that level, there remain all decade/multiple all pro safeties and some CB that on paper have far better resumes, just based on his playing career there are plenty of gaps on that resume.
Paul I meant to say sharper is the best MODERN db not in the hall.
Think eric allen is the 2nd best
Not to stray from the subject of the HOF, with the 15 Modern finalists coming up, but the Dallas Cowboys, in a disastrous season, have another Leon Lett moment that takes a win away … 31 years later …
yea except that season at least led to SB title..this one clearly isn’t…
Ron Borges wrote this letter to the senior committee about Jim Tyrer’s Hall of Fame case
https://halloffootball.substack.com/p/jim-tyrer-hof-sr-selectors-insight
I have mixed feelings about Jim Tyrer what he did was wrong but he was suffering from CTE
As much as I love football I’m glad I don’t play it this sport takes a toll on your body and your brain
Looks like Belichick will coach NC and challenge Kraft for a HOF spot in 2026. Belichick will go in first, I believe, then Gronk, then Brady. Could Kraft continue to wait?
I’m still confused about the coach rule does it only apply to nfl or nfl and ncaa coaching jobs in terms of belichick
Brian we’ll just see what happens
The voters need to put aside all the scandals and make Robert Kraft the contributor finalist and elect him I’ve got a statement ready for when Tom Brady is announced as a first ballot Hall of Famer in 2028 at NFL Honors
You can now join your boyhood hero (Joe Montana) your owner (Robert Kraft) your head coach (Bill Belichick) and your tight end (Rob Gronkowski)
I’m planning to be in Canton in 2028 when Tom Brady is inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame I’m going to attend the Gold Jacket Dinner (I’m going to have to get a suit) and the induction ceremony I hope to see Robert Kraft with a Gold Jacket
Robert
I believe it is strictly NFL so an NCAA job will not stop Belichick’s eligibility in 2026.
yep assuming he does not flip back into NFL for job opening after this season, I think we can put BillB down as lock for election to class of 2026
Kraft remains a strong contender as contributor for class of 2026, and if he’s among the 5 finalists with BillB, I can certainly see both elected-and I don’t see one keeping the other out…..but leaves only one slot for 3 senior finalists that class.
Appreciate the feedback bo knows and paul wasn’t entirely sure heads up I won’t be on here as much as I got some medical stuff coming up
Robert I understand hope they’re not serious we’re all behind you
This is what’s played during the Pro Football Hall of Fame announcement at NFL Honors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MklQTLHw8Iw
And reminder we only have one more pre-election meeting announcement coming- names of 15 modern finalists on NFL Network show, Sat Dec 28th (time TBA)
While we’re waiting for the finalists I thought I’d share this from the Pro Football Hall of Fame media guide fewest games played and fewest seasons played have asterisks besides them it says at the bottom does not include Joe Guyon or Jim Thorpe whose careers preceded the formation of the NFL and accurate games played data not available total games played for Fritz Pollard is based on best available data and includes games played with independent pro teams
I don’t see program/show listed on NFL Network (“Golden Jacket modern finalists show”) for Saturday December 28th-date Hall already indicated for the announcement – but NFL Network is broadcasting three live NFL games that day so perhaps during one of their pre-game shows or game coverage they will make announcement
guessing during 10a-1p (EST) NFL Network pregame show before LA/NE game
Appreciate the additional details paul I’ll be back to posting regularly when the finalist list comes out
I emailed the Pro Football Hall of Fame asking when the finalists will be announced and they told me it will be a stand alone show in the morning leading into game coverage 10 am start they said more audience than the night show I wonder if this is the way it’s going to be from now on announcing the finalists in the morning instead of night
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and to a Great New Year to All
Happy Holidays to all, lets hope we are all happy with the Class Of 2025 as well?
RIP Eagles legend 66 LB Bill Bergey who I support for the HOF.
I’m surprised Jared Allen has waited as long as he has. He should be in as well as Hines Ward and Darren Woodson. I’m not buying Torry Holt maybe as a Senior. I’d put Mark Clayton’s 84 TD’s in before Holt. What, do we get 4 modern day? I like Eric Allen but Antonio Gates shouldn’t wait. Suggs can go in next year.
On its face Bill Belichick going to the college game seems a little weird when a lot of the older coaches are being frustrated by the state of the portal nonsense and players going to the highest bidder. But then maybe he’s energized with a new challenge and intrigued with the idea of going where his Dad had coached for a time. That tells me he is secure in his legacy of being the greatest SB winning Head Coach and leaving Don Shula’s 347 all time wins stand. Fine with me. :) I guess that doesn’t drive him. Maybe if Shula was still alive. LOL
The Kansas City Chiefs are an amazingly winner franchise. I really hope they can do the SB three- peat. I put nothing past that Team. Andy Reid is maybe on the Mount Rushmore of NFL Head Coaches now?
Oh yeah, the 72 year old Belichick is probably energized by his girlfriend as well. Isn’t she college age? Sorry had to go there. :)
I hope everyone has had a happy holiday. Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. Alleluia!!
Tony p why aren’t you buying Torry Holt he was a key member of the Greatest Show on Turf had the most receptions and receiving yards in a decade led the Rams to two Super Bowls and a Super Bowl win and get this he’s been waiting the longest out of all the Wide Receivers and and out of all the Wide Receivers on the 1970s 1980s 1990s and 2000s All Decade Team Torry Holt is the only one not in
We’ll just see what happens when the Class of 2025 is revealed at NFL Honors
No Bill Belichick’s girlfriend Jordon Hudson is not college age
You’re right Hudson is 24. :) Only a 48 year difference. Wild Bill belies his TV persona. lol
I watch film of Holt and he was very good but doesn’t pass the HOF eye test for me. It was hard to look bad in that Offense. Az Hakim and Proehl looked great when they were used as well. Someone else must see what I see or he wouldn’t wait so long. Holt had a couple outstanding seasons. Once you get a rep you can add up Pro Bowls. I’m trying to think who the WR competition was during his time? Exceptional talent wasn’t as deep as today. WR’s are making Odell Beckham Jr. catches all over the place even in college. Players in Holt’s time Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Issac Bruce and Megatron at the end. Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison, an all-time great . Pretty much freaky talents and then there’s Holt trying to squeeze in. Compared to those he’s a fringe HOFer IMO and should wait. A very good productive WR is as far as I’ll go.
I thought the same about Charlie Joiner and he got in. Holt will make it. Rod Smith passed the eye test for me. Hopefully he will get in one day. I’m trying to think of another SB winning Team with 2 WR’s in the HOF. I guess the Steelers and I didn’t agree with that either. Wayne will likely join Harrison from the Colts.
Holt was a great player but his teammate, Bruce, is already in the HOF, which makes it tough for him, as there are rare instances where both receivers are elected. You have the two from the Steelers and Raiders, yet Branch had to wait along time. Wayne is going through the same thing. Will it happen for Holt? I believe this year but the voting system might also lock him out.
If the Chiefs three-peat–and the networks love to have a known superstar like Mahomes after Brady– Reid will enter the greatest coaches of all-time conversation, especially since the team is winning with defense as much as anything.
Will a new team or young QB, win it all? Could a veteran QB from free agency or a trade, lead his team all the way? Personally, I want to see a QB from his original team, lead his team to victory. Since Russell Wilson with Seattle in 2014, its only been done by Brady and Mahomes …
Reminder guys the announcement is at 10 am on NFL Network like all of you I’ll be watching can’t wait for the announcement
Official list – EAllen,JAllen,Anderson,Evans,Gates,Holt,LukeK,Eli,SSmith,Suggs,Taylor,AdamV,Wayne,Woodson,Yanda
Steve Smith in for Rodney Harrison from last year’s ballot.
Plus five new names (Luke K, Eli, Adam V, Suggs and Yanda).
I think I’ll sit this part out from now on who knows which names they will pick as inductees can anyone blame me
Would guess those elected (4 or 5) will come from group of Gates Holt JAllen Anderson EAllen Woodson LukeK
Your right paul on that combination my question is if you had to decide between Woodson and Eric Allen who would you take and why
Surprised Smith got this far … Yanda will probably cancel out Evans. Thomas didnt make it either, which helps Woodson. Happy for the new additions but Eli will probably keep this class to four or less …
Too bad Wiz and Webb didnt advance. Can Holt get voted in with Wayne and Smith Sr in the mix?
Could Anderson be a true darkhorse, or will Evans and Yanda take away votes?
So what Paul, Tony, Andy …
A new thread or keep this one going till the end of the SB?
Postseason is about to start as well. Who will keep the Chiefs from three-peating? Buffalo, Baltimore, Detroit, Philly or Minny? Could anyone imagine Darnold and the Vikings going all the way?
2025 HOF modern finalists are out, thanks to Paul for posting the list above. Miss our X chats on the HOF, Paul, but it was time. Based on all this information, my Class would be: LukeK, Jared Allen, Torry Holt, Gates and Anderson. Plus Sharpe and Holmgren from the Seniors/ Coach and Contributor group. #SaintMaria01 #HOF2025
Very happy to see Steve Smith as a finalists. Hugely deserving player, especially when you consider his QBs and style of offense. His triple crown year was spectacular.
Surprised Harrison took a step back, but I’m lukewarm on his candidacy (although I respect those who believe he is an easy HOFer).
Finally, disappointed to see Manning continue to advance because he is likely to take away multiple HOFers with the new voting procedures. Maybe he’ll sail in to save us all the angst. In the end, I’d prefer to have one borderline QB (at best) than lose multiple other HOFers at other positions.
And reminder to all once we clear the new year I will set up our annual predict the class contest.
My thoughts
I got 13 out of 15
I’m glad Steve Smith Sr made it
I’m surprised Steve Wisniewski and Richmond Webb didn’t make it the voters better hurry up and make them finalists before they get sent to the senior abyss
I think Torry Holt and Reggie Wayne both get elected clearing the logjam allowing Larry Fitzgerald to get in next year and Smith gets elected in the years to come
i think it’ll primarily be a clean up year and we won’t see any first ballot Hall of Famers
We’ll just see what happens you know what they say life is full of surprises
Good calls on final 15 candidates, Andy P, Justin and others but with this voting system, I cant see two receivers making it this year, but like you said, who knows?
So the final vote is January 21st?
I support Harrison for the HOF due to postseason play but he isnt an easy bet. Woodson and Thomas are more deserving but like I have stated before … there could be safety fatigue amongst voters that could help Eric Allen?
Sorry, Justin, but I dont feel Eli Manning should sail in. Yes, he is borderline and should have to wait just like Ken Anderson, Conerly and others. He will keep other players in the queue from being voted in, which is wrong, but with his family pedigree, Iron man longevity and 4-0 record in championship games–like Jim Plunkett–he will get voted in I predict, after Brees gets voted in. In no way in hell, is he deserving of first ballot election. Especially, with a 117-117 regular season record as starter. Yet, like you said, its possible he could sail in, after beating Brady and the Patriots, though the Giants defense gave up only 31 points in those games.
If we start a new thread Paul, I will put my predictions on it, but if we stay with this one, I will wait when everyone else is ready. New thread or not, I will comment on the current postseason on this one, if anyone wants to chime in as well. I am hoping Andy or Tony can help me predict a winner against the spread. Luckily, I didnt bet on Denver today … haha
Does anyone know when the AP/UPI All-Pro Teams will be announced?
I don’t think we ever have exact date of the actual selection meeting as never announced publicly by the Gall (only tends to come out during or after due to post by voters) but is mid January virtual meeting – according to Clark Judge
Just found out, its usually around the 12th or 13th of January. Lots of players who made it last year probably wont be on it this year. Hopefully, Pro Football Journal will put there annual team out before then …
Paul I wonder why they’re meeting virtually again I thought they were going to meet in in person like they were supposed to last year but couldn’t because of the weather Jim Porter said he wanted to return to in person meetings
Guessing weather plus most voters are covering playoffs so the logistics of getting 50 from different cities to one location and back which interrupts their week isn’t feasible (I also have another theory – discussions during virtual meetings tend to be less personal and heated than if in person plus any side bars or attempts to collect votes – against the rules – is harder)
Announcers are gushing over Saquon Barkley’s 2003 yards 5.6 ypc over 16 games and having a chance to break Eric Dickerson’s 2,105 5.6 ypc over 16 games. It’s a fabulous season!! Does the record really matter if done in 17 games?
That said, which RB had the best rushing season? IMO Adrian Peterson’s 2,097 years 6.0 ypc over 16 games was the best because he did it after tearing his ACL the previous season. I have O.J. Simpson at number two with 2,003 6.0 ypc over 14 games, Barry Sanders 2,053 6.1 ypc over 16 games at three and Jim Brown 1,863 6.4 ypc over 14 games at four. I may be accused of nitpicking. lol Simpson’s still could be the best. :)
Other great seasons were:
Walter Payton 1,852 5.5 ypc over 14 games, Earl Campbell 1,934 5.2 ypc over 15 games, Jamal Lewis 2,066 5.3 ypc over 16 games, Terrell Davis 2,008 5.1 ypc over 16 games , Derrick Henry 2,027 5.4 ypc over 16 games and Chris Johnson 2,006 5.6 ypc over 16 games.
Paul I guess this is the way it’s going to be from now I wonder why Jim Porter would want to return to in person meetings but can’t because of the factors you mentioned
There are four things I daydream about being a Pro Football Hall of Fame voter being at NFL Honors in 2028 when Tom Brady is announced as a first ballot Hall of Famer along with the rest of the Class of 2028 including JJ Watt being at the Gold Jacket Dinner in 2028 when Tom Brady and the rest of the class of 2028 including JJ Watt put on their Gold Jackets for the first time and being at the Pro Football Hall of Fame induction ceremony in 2028 when Tom Brady and rest of the class of 2028 including JJ Watt are inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame
Barkley has had a great season but Simpson’s year might be the best because he averaged 143 yrds per game in 1973, nearly 20 yrds a game more than Barkley this year. Terrell Davis not only had the 2000 yard season in 1998 but had rest with a playoff bye before adding another 468 yrds in the postseason going back-to-back as champion. It might be the best year because it also put him in the HOF. Too bad the injury in 1999 ended his career.
The Eagles may let Barkley get the record next week, but I would rest him, along with Hurts and other players. The postseason is all that matters.
I have no idea what Porter thinks or believes anymore as seems in the last year to have completely changed views on many aspects of the Hall compared to his public statements in 2022 and 2024 plus doesn’t seem to do interviews anymore to provide updates and insights – and appears not regularly consulting with voters either (at least that’s my impression)
According to John Turney, who at least talks to some voters, he feels Kuechly wont make it first ballot, so it will be interesting to see how they clear the queue … could this help get Woodson or Anderson, or maybe Wayne? Evans might even get a boost …
I would say that would help EAllen, Woodson and/or Anderson ….. unless voters only elect 4 moderns
Really disappointed that neither Webb nor Wisniewski didnt advance. I’m not opposed to Willie Anderson, but dont really understand why his candidacy has taken off while the other two have had so much trouble. I think his case is weaker.
Surprised (pleasantly) to see Steve Smith in there but am a little afraid it might make it harder to push either Holt or Wayne through the pipe. A little surprised Earl Thomas didn’t make it but if it means a better chance of clearing out Woodson or Eric Allen, that’s fine.
It feels like a good year to clear out the backlog as I don’t think there are any automatic first ballot guys. My gut tells me it’s gonna be disappointing. I suspect Sharpe and Holmgren make it while Hay, Tyrer and Baughan are left out, and we could easily end up with fewer than five modern guys elected. I hope it turns out differently.
I admire Barkley and the Eagles to shut him down the final game against the Giants. Better to eliminate the chance of injury or burnout, with the playoffs ahead. No reason to stick it to the Giants that let him leave? Clark Judge disagrees and thinks Barkley should get the record for history sakes, not to mention for fans, teammates and observers but if he got injured, with Hurts and Pickett in doubt … why risk it for the WC round?