As we move into the summer months, for those interested in the Pro Football Hall of Fame thoughts and discussions often focus on the upcoming enshrinement of the next class of players, coaches and contributors at the Hall in Canton during the first week in August. Events this year that will include both the 20 member class of 2020 , including Centennial Class (elected, but due to the Covid pandemic not enshrined last year), plus the 8 member class of 2021. Congratulations to the newest members of the Hall, which now stands at 346 individuals representing over 100 years of professional football.
But for others who closely follow and debate the selection of PFHOFers, summer brings another annual tradition- the start of the election process for the next class, in this case for 2022. Starting with the selection of the finalists from the senior, coach and contributor categories by their respective subcommittees in late August. This will be followed by the preliminary list of modern candidates for the class of 2022 which will advance to the 25 semi-finalists (November), 15 finalists (January 2022), and voting for the 5 modern players (plus decisions on the senior, coach and contributor) the day before Super Bowl LVI at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, CA, February 13th, 2022. So let the debates begin!
Starting with the senior committee finalist selection, we can consider those players we know were considered a year ago but not selected: Stanley Morgan, George Kunz, Randy Gradishar, Cliff Branch, Roger Craig, Ken Anderson, Ken Riley, Chuck Howley, Tommy Nobis, LC Greenwood, Joe Klecko (note: unofficial list as PFHOF does not publicly announce the 12 players considered by the seniors committee. Rumors on social media suggested that Riley finished 2nd, in 2021 voting – to finalist and elected PFHOF Dallas Cowboys WR Drew Pearson. However, we know actually very little about the finalists, discussions and voting by the rotating group of five senior committee members who make the selection to present to the full committee at their meeting each year the day before the Superbowl. Several of these possible senior candidates were finalists for the 2020 Centennial Class, and suggestions have made over the years that many have been part of the process of selecting senior candidates in the past. Will recent momentum carry Riley to election (also the focus of a high profile social media campaign by Bengal fans) or will this finally be the year for Gradishar, Branch or Klecko? Are the prospects dimming for pre 1960s candidates such as Ox Emerson, Lavvie Dilweg and Al Wistert?
For 2021, the first election that provided for a separate coaches category, saw Oakland/LA Raiders coach Tom Flores elected into the Hall. As to clues to the possible next coach under consideration, unfortunately we don’t know exactly whom voters are considering, but certain ones are very likely: Don Coryell, Mike Holmgren Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, and Dick Vermeil (all finalists for the 2020 Centennial Class), with Marty Schottenheimer another likely candidate. All deserving names, which is leading to a difficult decision by the coaches subcommittee this August. And for the contributor candidate, names that seem to draw interest and attention as potential contenders include Art McNally, Robert Kraft, Art Modell, Bud Adams, Bucko Kilroy, and several other owners, scouts and general managers. But at this point, a clear contender does not appear to exist, although many are advocating for McNally to become the first on-field NFL official to be elected into PFHOF.
Next we have the always contentious selection of the five (maximum) modern candidates; a process that will start in September with over 100 nominees, including many returning finalists from 2021, and as in every election year first year ballot players to be under discussion. In this latter group we will see Demarcus Ware, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith, Tony Romo, Nick Mangold, Vince Wilfork, and Devin Hester to appear as candidates. Recent elections have resulted in an large increase in the number of 1st ballot players elected – an issue of much debate in the media – including by some current voters who view the trend as disconcerting. An issue that is unlikely to be at the forefront this election cycle, with only Ware perhaps having best chance at election.
What we will have is a strong group of returning candidates, including several who have now been finalists multiple times in recent elections, highlighted by those players remaining from the 2021 final ten stage: Tony Boselli, Zack Thomas, Richard Seymour and Leroy Butler. Others likely to receive considerable discussion among the voters will be other 2021 semi-finalists, such as Jared Allen, Ronde Barber, Torry Holt, Sam Mills, Reggie Wayne, and Bryant Young. In addition, the candidacy of special team player Steve Tasker will likely receive plenty of attention as he appears on the modern candidate ballot for the last time, and perhaps represents an opportunity by the voters to advance him to the finalist round as the first non-kicker or punter special team player to be discussed by the full Hall selection committee.
That gets us the start of the eight month long process of debates and voting stages for the PFHOF Class of 2022 – let’s all jump in with our views, make cases and engage in our annual contributions to the always interesting and unknown process to add 8 more members to the Hall in Canton.
who is the 1 senior candidate that we can all agree on
Wishlist For Class Of 2022
Senior … Gradishar
Coach … Parker
Contributor … Kilroy
Modern Players
Ware
Nalen
Thomas
Seymour
D Woodson
Predictions
Senior … Gradishar
Coach … Coryell
Contributor … Kraft
Modern Players
Boselli
Butler
Ware
Seymour
Thomas
I would still like to see Howley, but I have this feeling that Gradishar and Nobis will have to get in first…and they are both deserving. I would support either of them. I would also support Branch or Lester Hayes.
between Gradishar and Nobis who do you support more Bill?
I support Gradishar slightly more. I believe he was the best defender on one of the best defenses of all-time. Certainly one of the most underrated defenses ever (small window of great defense hurts legacy). Nobis and Gradishar were both great at getting to the ball carrier and bringing him down. Both were incredible “form” tacklers. Gradishars’s teams had a little more success. Hopefully they both get in, but slight edge to Gradishar.
Predictions
Senior … Gradishar (50/50 chance)
Coach … Coryell (80% chance)
Contributor … McNally (60-70% chance)
Modern Players
Boselli (90+% chance)
Butler (90+% chance)
Ware (60-70% chance)
Seymour (60-70% chance)
Thomas (50-60% chance)
Others with <50% chance include Allen, Wayne, Barber)
I don’t remember if we’ve ever even discussed him, but what do you guys think of Kevin Williams’ shot at the HOF some day? Five all-pro selections (not sure if all first team, just reading a local story from last year) and six Pro Bowls…wasn’t a flashy player, but was always solid against the run and rushing the quarterback as a DT. He wasn’t even a semifinalist last year, so he’s got a ways to go…
5x first team all pro and all decade team put Kevin Williams in the discussion, but DT (unless considered all time great or high in all time sacks-his 63 are far down the list) have a hard time getting in, likely looking a long wait but will get in one day
I agree Tony …
Williams and Allen may wait longer than they should but I also wouldnt be surprised if Allen got in before Ware, though doubtful. I dont believe a wide receiver will get voted in this year. Still hoping an older senior like Wistert, Lewellen or Dilweg gets serious consideration. Though I would prefer Parker or Shaughnessy as a coach, it will probably be another modern pick like Coryell, Reeves, Vermeil or Shanahan …
Though I will try to make more noise on the HOF, NFL and PFRA websites for Chuck Howley, I just dont believe the senior selection committee will select a former Cowboy three years in a row.
In answer to your question Robert The Greatest, I believe we would all get behind Howley or Gradishar …
There is a long list of LB’s in the Senior Pool that is sure to get deeper with Sam Mills and Pat Swilling soon running out of eligibility.
Howley, Gradishar, Baughan, Mecklinburg, Curtis, Nobis, Mathews, Grantham, Robertson, Bergey, Marshall are all players that we mention regularly. Hopefully someone from this list gets nominated.
What do you guys think of Don Doll for Det/Wash/LA ?
Short career of six seasons but 41 interceptions and a championship. I cant believe he hasnt even made the HOVG ?
I love Don Doll for a potential Senior nominee, but unquestionably, should be in the “hall of very good.” The Lions sure had some incredible secondaries!
What do you think about Jim David? Same team, just cam along a little later.
Can we all agree on Cliff Branch as well? I’ll go out on a limb and say Tommy Nobis doesn’t make it. High profile player coming out of Texas who was playing a high profile position at MLB in the NFL albeit for a bad Falcons Team.. I think he would be in by now if he was a HOFer. Everyone knows his reputation as a hitter. Gradishar is the puzzling one to me. He’s very deserving! Maybe as popular as those “orange crush” defenses were by the fans they aren’t respected by the critics as much? Just putting it out there. Louis Wright should have a place in the HOF as well.
I never heard of Doll. With a name like that you would have to be tough. LOL
The voters cant ever decide on worthy Broncos from the 76-86 defensive era.
Gradishar, Wright, Thompson, Alzado, Mecklenberg, Fletcher and Dennis Smith were all quality players but Gradishar seems to be the biggest snub so far …
David for the Lions was distinguished but I guess voters do not want to put entire secondaries in for any one particular team with Yary and Christiansen already enshrined.
It seemed like the Lions had riches because they traded Doll and many people felt Doak Walker was good enough to play only defense as well …
Meanwhile, Ramsey and Buddy Parker cant be enshrined as Coaches, though Ramsey is up for the HOVG as a player …
Thanks for bringing up David, Bill …
I didnt know he had interceptions in all the Lions championship wins. Thats what I call clutch …
could you clarify what you meant about parker cant be enshrined as a coach
I just meant Parker has waited longer than he should have, to be elected and I hope 2022 is his year, which would also match the number his QB, Bobby Layne wore …
Its funny how a great team like the Lions from the 50s, has all these HOF players, with Doll and David worthy as well but not their HC.
Ramsey was their excellent defensive coodinator, who not only helped make the 43 defense standard in the NFL but might have been the first coach to strategically send linebackers on the blitz, which he called Red Dog … I am thinking about voting for him for HOVG because he was a good player for the Cardinals as well …
Jim David might be the most obscure great player of all-time. I have never seen him mentioned by John Turney, Ron Borges, Gil Brandt or any other historian in many, many years. The last time I remember someone brining up his name was Frank Gifford on Monday night football about 25 years ago when discussing some of the great Lions defensive backs that he had faced.
Doll and David have very little chance of ever getting elected given the large number of deserving senior candidates (my list has 50 others) plus inability or disinterest from voters regarding pre 1960 players (of which there are also many more deserving)
With the first ballot selection of Calvin Johnson last year, the big questions will be, will another first ballot receiver make it this year, will any receiver get voted in ?
Will the queue of other players get elected without a receiver, or for that matter, another safety, since many have been elected over the past seven elections ?
Ward, Holt and Wayne should be the next in line, as Branch, Jackson and Ellard for the seniors but we shall see …
Could Andre Johnson, Steve Smith or Anquan Boldin for first ballot eligibles ?
All have cases but they could also wait, though the logjam is strong …
I don’t think a WR gets in the class of 2022 and agree that voters need to address the modern candidate logjam at WR and guessing it will take several elections or longer to resolve
I concur with paul 100% that no wr will be elected in 2022 who does that open the door for
Thinking we are likely looking at Boselli Butler Seymour Thomas and Ware/Allen
Demaryius Thomas retired as well. A great talent who I thought should have done more.
It seemed like only Manning could bring the best out of him. Ron Borges did a good write-up of another Denver receiver, Haven Moses, who was a deep threat for a long time, on the talkoffame/si site.
Is Thomas or Moses worthy of the HOF ?
Both have cases but I say no …
Moses was a deep threat but also didnt catch alot of balls, though Morton was better than Borges gives him credit for. Moses did play for some mediocre QBs though, especially in Buffalo.
Despite winning a ring, and racking up garbage numbers against Seattle in his other SB, Thomas wasnt the same after Manning left the Broncos. His drops and lack of clutch plays were frustrating for many of his fans because his talent was just below Calvin Johnson’s, in my opinion …
Some people believe he was never the same receiver after getting belted by Kam Chancellor and the Legion Of Boom in that 2013/14 SB but he should have overcome that and had closer to 12,000 rather than 10,000 yards career yards and nearly 70 TDs counting postseason.
Thats the problem with this inflated numbers era of wide receivers, at least since 2008.
How do you judge the best of the best ?
Is it total talent level, statistics, postseason success/clutch plays, staying healthy, consistency ?
All of the above, yes but sometimes you have to simply look at all these players and numbers and think – Did this particular player get the absolutely most out of his playing ability or not leave enough on the field ?
Does a Wayne or Holt get voted in despite not being their teams best receiver for a number of years or did their numbers, postseason success and production later, as number one receivers, put them in ?
Everyone knows that Hines Ward was slower than most receivers but did he get the most out of his talent ? Did his team leadership or clutch plays, willingness to block in his team’s running game give him the necessary credentials ? Talent wise, he didnt stand out like Thomas, Johnson or even Julio Jones, so like a number of receivers, his accomplishments carry certain weighted factors.
We all know a certain amount of receivers will get voted in rather now or later but as each new player gets looked at, the voters have to be careful and put their statistics in perspective without overlooking other important positions that had deserving player achievement as well, like the offensive and defensive lines, inside linebackers, cornerbacks and tight ends/fullbacks who blocked without huge numbers.
I agree Paul, it will probably come down to Boselli, Butler/Barber, Thomas, Seymour and Ware/Allen …
Five out of those seven but another receiver or linebacker could also perhaps be in the mix. Will an older player like Mills, Eric Allen, Rodney Harrison, Tom Nalen, Leslie 0 Neil or Albert Lewis, Watters/Taylor advance further along ?
Final 15 in 2022 will have several open slots (25 semi-finalists even more) so any number of those players you list could move along in the process.
If Hall stays with subcommittee meeting schedule as last year (and they may not as those dates have moved around mid-late August over the years), we should get the class of 2022 senior finalist announcement in 6 weeks, followed by the coach and contributor finalists. Hall does not discuss or promote these meetings in advance, usually we only get social media posts from Hall on the day once meetings have started. But that is the schedule, and if past is any indication dates may vary but look for news 3rd week in August as that historically has been the norm. We also have new voters added to those committees, which is good way to bring some fresh voices perspectives (and candidates?) into the discussion room by the committee.
Whats interesting about the wide receivers is that we look at a potential backlog or logjam for possible HOF induction but we dont perceive the same thing for running backs ?
With runners, its seems we fans, commenters or voters look for certain number minimums like say 11,000 or more yards rushing and say, 13,000 yards receiving for wide receivers but we seem to forget that many runners have high receiving numbers as well, not to mention pass protection on third downs.
Should a receiver get voted in for say, 15,000 yards receiving and 70 TDs over a back who had 10,000 yards rushing, another 4000 receiving and 70 TDs, while playing all three downs as a blocker as well ?
Voters have to very careful about evaluating players on numbers alone. Running backs, especially ones with pass catching numbers as well, like Ottis Anderson, Roger Craig, Ricky Watters, Tiki Barber, etc might get more overlooked than say, receivers with big numbers, who may have never blocked or went stretches of games without catching passes.
It would be nice to see if other runners can move past the 25 semifinalists lists and try to have more competition with receivers being considered as well. Yes, a Shaun Alexander might have less than 10,000 yards rushing but looking at his 120 TDs counting postseason and receiving numbers, his chances should be as good as a Torry Holt or Reggie Wayne in my opinion but runners are more judged on just rushing stats than their overrall game.
Will Alexander, Taylor, Watters, Barber,George, Lewis, Dillon and Holmes get more attention this year or are their numbers, accolades, etc just too similiar ?
I think the mindset (right or wrong) is still to largely view RBs in terms of rushing yards (and other awards, honors, accomplishments) which has likely hurt the cases of Anderson, Craig. Perhaps that will change as the run game continues to be secondary to passing option and RBs continue to play important role there as well. I don’t think 10,000 yards is the milestone it once was seen as, and for 2000s too many RBs (Alexander, Taylor, Watters, Barber,George, Lewis, Dillon and Holmes) have similar numbers making it hard for votes to even make strong uniform push for any of them.
I suspect over time Taylor and Alexander likely get in, but I highly doubt we are going to see 6+ more RBs from late 1990s into 2000s decade ever get into the Hall. And within next 5 or so years we will see Peterson, Gore, Lynch and McCoy all added to the ballot with Peterson and Gore jumping any earlier RBs on the ballot.
Counting seniors of course, there have been ten receivers to only four backs elected since 2015. Yes, the most deserving players should make the Hall no matter what, but runners are being more overlooked or canceling each other out, while more receivers are getting stronger looks … Though not flashy, at least Hines Ward blocked like a running back, which may help his cause later but its doubtful because his possession catches status with less than 13 yrds per catch is considered too low for many people, which I understand.
Well there are more WRs starting in the league in this era than RBs
Its surprising this far into July and Larry Fitzgerald hasnt committed to playing yet.
I think this Arizona team could be a contender if Chandler Jones is fully healthy on defense. If he retires its going to be an interesting HOF class in 2026.
so far contenders for first ballot class of 2026 looks like:
2026: Drew Brees*, Philip Rivers, Jason Witten, Greg Olson, Maurkice Pouncy, Julian Edelman (Larry Fitzgerald? Frank Gore? Adrian Peterson?)
Only lock so far would be Brees, but would be interesting if Fitz, Gore and AP ended up on that ballot)
Per the PFRA website, Pro Football-Reference is now listing sack totals for all defensive players. I couldnt believe how low Jim Marshall’s totals were after 1971 ? Even his postseason totals after 1971 were lower, while Eller on the other side started slowly as a pass rusher but stayed consistently high in totals during the 70s …
I love that they have listed those totals. Here is my question; Do we look at some players differently. For me, the totals from the DT spot for Gary Johnson and Larry Brooks were impressive. How about the confirmation that Jim Katcavage and Jack Gregory were dominant pass rushers. I Have relatives from the West coast that swear Cedric Harman was a much better player than Fred Dean. I just love the research that has been done on sacks.
Its great to see updates to such an important defensive stat BUT I am not so sure it makes a huge impact to senior candidate cases. Sure Baker, Bacon, and Marshall now have more accurate career sack totals, but still fall outside of top 20 plus nothing can be done retroactively to their lack of first team all pro selections. In my view they still fall behind a long list of more serving senior candidates including many defensive players. But I appreciate the hard work and efforts by those who added pre 1982 sacks to “unofficial” league stats.
I still have a hard time believing the 60s numbers on Merlin Olsen. He may not have had as many sacks as I thought but I believe he drove many QBs out of the pocket towards Jones, Lundy and Bacon.
Hardman was a great rusher like Dean but Dean was better against the run.
Art Modell showed his true colors again by refusing to pay Jack Gregory and letting him go to the Giants. The Browns didnt sniff the playoffs again till 1980.
Youre right Paul, great pass rushers or not, other accolated defensive players deserve to get in the HOF like Howley, Brito, Patton, Dilweg, Fortunato, Grayson, etc but I also hope the rotating voters on the senior committees look at Harvey Martin again with a SB, three NFC Championships, 114 sacks, and I believe the most sacks in postseason history with 17.5
With four Cowboys elected as seniors since 2000 (Wright, Hayes, Harris, Pearson) plus Howley clearly in the mix, I really don’t see Harvey Martin getting serious consideration
without a doubt i agree with paul and brian on the candidates before marshall and bacon of the players brian mentioned id endorse howley patton dilweg fortunato Grayson would actually consider nobis over brito
I was basing it on accolades Robert but it will interesting to see who gets in first, Nobis or Gradishar because Brito may never get voted in, though Turney and Webster advocated him for the HOF, though they dont have accurate sack numbers on him, except for a couple of seasons …
Fair enough brian i completly understand 100%
Bachslunch, Rasputin … are you guys still reading the Zoneblitz ?
Haven’t seen either for quite sometime, I think Rasputin got tired of the debates and election results (disagreed with voters) and moved on from here
Yeah, I miss those guys commenting, especially with recent Cowboys elected but thought I would see them on the PFRA website. I reached out to Bachs, but havent heard back from him. Our passion for NFL history can take a lot out of us … haha
Ted Ginn Jr retired from football.
Though not the special teams returner that Hester was, he was a better receiver with over 15,000 all-purpose yards. Not bad for a slightly disappointing player considering where he was drafted. An exciting player who might have made the HOF with better hands.
Paul or Brian: How would you react if they picked lets say wistert as a senior nominee
Shocked
id be too paul but i would be excited for the following gradishar howley Wistert Dilweg VL Emerson
It would be great and possible because Wistert was good on defense as well. Could you imagine if Wistert got in along with Parker as coach and Kilroy as contributor ?
Its not official, but word is that Kenn and Faison will be elected for the HOVG, so its going to be interesting who the other players will be ? Five or six more ?
I am pretty sure it won’t be Wistert
Good point Paul i agree on wistert 100%
What I can gather is that seniors committee isn’t really interested at this point in pre 1960 players, perhaps after several more long deserving seniors are elected more attention will swing back to pre 1960 players one day
Meaning after Gradishar, Branch, Howley, Anderson, Riley, Nobis, Craig, Kelcko, Greenwood (and perhaps others), and of course just those 8 would take up to 8 years to get elected (under current rules, 6 yrs if we return to 2 seniors per year after 2024)
Is 2022 the final eligible year for Herschel Walker ?
Yes for Walker and also Steve Tasker
Thanks Paul … It might be now or never for both …
Plus Sam Mills – and I don’t think any get in but Mills and Tasker could make final 15
Walker was definitely a player who could be great when utilized on offense correctly but whether the Vikings or Eagles, he played for ordinary offensive lines that pass blocked rather than pounding the ball, which Walker preferred. His trade to the Vikings showed that he was considered an elite talent but the Vikings screwed it up. He was very underrated as a receiver and could be explosive on special teams and voters forget about everything but running numbers.
In my opinion he was the Ollie Matson of the 80s and 90s, who could do everything but play defense and may be one of the few players to have a number of plays go for more than 70 yards without making the HOF.
I believe DeSean Jackson has the most 70+ yard TDs (23?) and he’s never getting into Hall
I think Walker case is hard for voters to justify, hard to elect any player especially a RB that was never first team all pro or consider his USFL stats when they have 15 modern finalists with multiple all pro, all decade, league season and career leaders plus all purpose guys never get considered unless heavy on receiving or rushing yards. He strikes me as a guy who might have unique case of interest to senior committee one day
Terrell Suggs is eligible for the Hall in 2024 I think …
Though he may not be first ballot, he had a great career and may get in sooner than three years because he not only rushed but played the run well. Would he get voted in before Freeney ?
Just an update/reminder, although we never know that date in advance (usually find out on day of with Hall social media posts), the senior/coaches committee to select their class of 2022 finalists should be meeting in about two weeks (week of August 16th), day of the week has moved around last several years but that that’s the usual timing, with the contributors held same week or following one. Guessing day just really set depending on when committee members and Hall staff are all available.
And of course the 2021 (and 2020) enshrinement week events in Canton are already underway, highlighted by the PFHOF game Dallas vs Pittsbugh tomorrow night (Aug 5th) followed by the Gold Jacket Dinner on Fri Aug 6th, Class of 2020 ceremony on Sat Aug 7th starting at 630p EDT (on ESPN and NFL Network) and Class of 2021 ceremony on Sun August 7th starting at 7pm EDT (also on ESPN and NFL Network). So look of plenty of news, stories and social media activity around Hall and the enshrines this week. Two major news items so far are the effort by the Hall (finally!!) to get control over the increasingly long speeches (30+ min in some cases) that have driven ceremonies to 3-4 hrs long by limiting enshrine speeches to 6-8 minutes !!! and the possibility that Troy Polamalu may not attend (or only have limited appearances) due his recent announcement of covid-19 positive status-although looks like his case is not severe and we wish the best for his recovery and safety for his family and friends. Look for more updates on that story in the coming days.
And I would be remiss if I did not take this occasion to observe the Olympic “anniversary” of the only member of the PFHOF who also has 2x Olympic gold metals and won a SB……, Cowboys WR/PR Bob “Bullet” Hayes (PFHOF class of 2009) who won both the 100m and 4x100m men’s relay in the 1964 Olympics -last time games were held in Toyko- RIP Bob. Anyone willing to guess (without searching Google) the only other PFHOFer who won Olympic gold???
Willie Gault or Ron Brown ? Was thinking of Ollie Matson as well …
Haha … I goofed. Forgot you said HOFamer.
Didnt Thorpe win gold ? He also competed against George Patton in the Pentathlon
YEP Thorpe won golds in decathlon and pentathlon at 1912 Olympic games in Stockholm. Often forgotten by many because one year later IOC took back the medals after it was found out he had been paid to play semi-pro baseball in North Carolina in 1909-1910. After decades of petitions, victories were reinstated in 1983 and commemorative medals given to his two children. Interestingly the original Olympic medals were stolen from a museum and have never been recovered. He truly was perhaps the greatest American athlete of all time.
RIP Russ Washington
A great tackle for the Chargers who should have entered the HOF by now.
I nominated him for the HOVG and hopes he makes it. The early 80s Chargers offensive line could manhandle teams and has HOF cases for Macek at center, Wilkerson and White at guards as well …
Cowher gave the best speech so far, very heartfelt. Johnson was cocky and humble at the same time. He has always felt bad about putting coaching above family but everyone could see how driven he was …
Cant wait to hear Drew Pearson’s speech !
Pearson sure endorsed the Pro Football Hall Of Fame !
Since the best Cowboys jerseys are out of stock on Mitchell and Ness, and Ebbetts doesnt have 60s Cowboy jerseys yet, I ordered two jerseys from Pearson’s Cowboy’s Legends website … #88 Pearson and #43 Perkins … will get #12 Staubach and #40 Bates later …
On vacation so have not seen either ceremony- only highlights (have saved full events on my DVR to watch later) but looked like all went well and even with shorter speeches – longest was still just 11 minutes – enshrines did great job and as usual Hall staff and volunteers did fantastic efforts with all the events and activities to honor the newest 28 members of PFHOF
which senior do you hope for to be nominated
Randy Gradishar
If (and it’s a big if because meeting has never had set date plus Hall doesn’t announce in advance) Hall follows usual timing of senior and coach committee meeting as seen in recent years, selection of senior and coach finalists for class of 2022 should be this coming week.
Recently I compiled a list of the top 350 seniors would anyone be interested in seeing the list or a smaller version of the list
Robert: I’d be interested in seeing whatever you want to share
Prediction:
Senior – Gradishar
Coach – Coryell
Contributor – McNally
Gladly Justin
1. Jim Marshall 168
2. Ken Anderson 160
3. John Hadl 146
4. Ron McDole 144
5. Jim Tyrer 144
6. Mike Kenn 139
7. Clay Matthews 139
8. Ken Riley 133
9. Jim Hart 131
10. Isiah Robertson 131
11. Roman Gabriel 130
12. Ed White 130
13. John Brodie 129
14. Too Tall Jones 129
15. Steve McMichael 128
16. Cornell Green 127
17. Larry Grantham 125
18. Harold Jackson 124
19. Wayne Walker 124
20. Lemar Parrish 122
21. Chuck Howley 121
22. Wilber Marshall 121
23. Max Montoya 121
24. Pat Fischer 120
25. Lee Roy Jordan 120
26. Dick Schafrath 120
27. Craig Morton 118
28. Phil Simms 118
29. Russ Washington 118
30. Steve Grogan 117
31. Doug Wilkerson 117
32. Lyle Alzado 116
33. Bob Kuechenberg 116
34. Stan Brock 115
35. Roger Craig 115
36. Jeff Van Note 115
37. Karl Mecklenburg 114
38. Norm Snead 114
39. Randy Cross 113
40. Len Hauss 113
41. Ralph Neely 113
42. Ray Donaldson 112
43. Maxie Baughan 111
44. Bill Bergey 111
45. Bobby Boyd 111
46. Ed Budde 111
47. Eddie Meador 111
48. Stanley Morgan 111
49. L.C. Greenwood 110
50. Kent Hull 109
51. Andy Russell 109
52. Roy Winston 109
53. Cliff Branch 108
54. Grady Alderman 107
55. Dave Butz 107
56. Ron Jaworski 107
57. Richie Petitbon 107
58. Joe Theismann 107
59. Randy Gradishar 106
60. Joe Jacoby 106
61. Jerry Mays 106
62. Walt Sweeney 106
63. Billy Thompson 106
64. Louis Wright 106
65. Dave Grayson 105
66. Carl Hairston 105
67. Jake Scott 105
68. Jacob Green 104
69. Jay Hilgenberg 104
70. Bart Oates 104
71. Fred Smerlas 104
72. Everson Walls 104
73. Gary Clark 103
74. Raymond Clayborn 103
75. Jack Reynolds 103
76. Dave Brown 102
77. Fred Dryer 102
78. Charlie Cowan 101
79. Bob Demarco 101
80. Chris Hinton 101
81. Harvey Martin 101
82. Bob Baumhower 100
83. Charley Johnson 100
84. Lydell Mitchell 100
85. Dennis Smith 100
86. Roger Brown 99
87. Mike Curtis 99
88. Jack Pardee 99
89. Jethro Pugh 99
90. Randy Rasmussen 99
91. Luis Sharpe 99
92. Ottis Anderson 98
93. Joe Nash 98
94. Diron Talbert 98
95. Darryl Talley 98
96. Gary Fencik 97
97. Mark Gastineau 97
98. Charles Mann 97
99. Wally Hilgenberg 97
100. Brad Van Pelt 97
101. Bob Vogel 97
102. Keith Fahnhorst 96
103. Charlie Krueger 96
104. Joe Scibelli 96
105. Mike Stratton 96
106. Reggie Williams 96
107. Al Baker 95
108. Mark Clayton 95
109. Carroll Dale 95
110. Doug Dieken 95
111. Mark Duper 95
112. Drew Hill 95
113. Jon Morris 95
114. Otis Taylor 95
115. Coy Bacon 94
116. Barney Chavous 94
117. John Dutton 94
118. Tim Irwin 94
119. Rod Martin 94
120. Marvin Powell 94
121. Art Still 94
122. George Andrie 93
123. Erich Barnes 93
124. Matt Blair 93
125. Boyd Dowler 93
126. Steve Nelson 93
127. Larry Brown 92
128. Gino Cappelletti 92
129. Deron Cherry 92
130. Bob Golic 92
131. Bert Jones 92
132. Guy McIntyre 92
133. Ed Newman 92
134. Bobby Bryant 91
135. Lester Hayes 91
136. Joe Klecko 91
137. George Kunz 91
138. Reggie McKenzie 91
139. Jerry Robinson 91
140. Scott Studwell 91
141. Rosey Taylor 91
142. Jeff Bostic 90
143. Blair Bush 90
144. Leroy Irvin 90
145. Frank Ryan 90
146. Jim Houston 90
147. Jim Ritcher 90
148. Verlon Biggs 89
149. Jeff Bryant 89
150. Matt Millen 89
151. Len Rohde 89
152. Bill Brown 88
153. Vern Den Herder 88
154. Roy Green 88
155. Chuck Foreman 88
156. Daryle Lamonica 88
157. Joey Browner 87
158. Dave Dalby 87
159. Doug English 87
160. Calvin Hill 87
161. Gary Larsen 87
162. Brian Sipe 87
163. Larry Stallings 87
164. Larry Brooks 86
165. Gary Collins 86
166. Nolan Cromwell 86
167. Ken Gray 86
168. Tommy Hart 86
169. Sean Jones 86
170. Greg Larson 86
171. Lawrence McCutcheon 86
172. Earl Morrall 86
173. Guy Morriss 86
174. John Alt 85
175. Houston Antwine 85
176. Carl Banks 85
177. Mike Hartenstine 85
178. Jerry Logan 85
179. Jim Lynch 85
180. Lou Michaels 85
181. Clarence Scott 85
182. Gene Washington 85
183. Dave Dalby 84
184. Jack Gregory 84
185. Dennis Harrah 84
186. E.J. Holub 84
187. Gary Johnson 84
188. Tommy Kramer 84
189. Rich Saul 84
190. Dick Anderson 83
191. Ordell Braase 83
192. Isaac Curtis 83
193. Hanford Dixon 83
194. Jack Kemp 83
195. Carl Lee 83
196. Don Macek 83
197. Tom Newberry 83
198. Julius Adams 82
199. Larry Cole 82
200. Dan Conners 82
201. Larry Hand 82
202. Ken Iman 82
203. Walter Johnson 82
204. Greg Pruitt 82
205. Billy Ray Smith (57-70) 82
206. Lionel Aldridge 81
207. Gregg Bingham 81
208. Sherrill Headrick 81
209. Jon Kolb 81
210. Wilbert Montgomery 81
211. Keith Van Horne 81
212. Ernie Wright 81
213. Joe Fortunato 80
214. Bill Glass 80
215. Abner Haynes 80
216. Bob Johnson 80
217. Phil Villapiano 80
218. Stan Walters 80
219. John Anderson 79
220. George Atkinson 79
221. Forrest Blue 79
222. Mark Bortz 79
223. Sterling Sharpe 79
224. Robin Cole 78
225. Dave Costa 78
226. David Little 78
227. Ray Mansfield 78
228. Art Powell 78
229. Cody Risien 78
230. Jeff Siemon 78
231. Jerry Sisemore 78
232. Butch Byrd 77
233. Clem Daniels 77
234. Jim Norton 77
235. Reggie Rucker 77
236. Tom Sestak 77
237. Ed Sharockman 77
238. Tom Addison 76
239. Timmy Brown 76
240. Michael Carter 76
241. Bob Dee 76
242. Larry Eisenhauer 76
243. Bill Lenkaitis 76
244. Jack Snow 76
245. Jack Tatum 76
246. Sherman White 76
247. Bob Young 76
248. John Ayres 75
249. Anthony Carter 75
250. Miller Farr 75
251. Mel Gray 75
252. Tunch Ilkin 75
253. George Martin 75
254. Fred Quillan 75
255. Bill Stanfill 75
256. George Starke 75
257. Bob Talamini 75
258. Dwight White 75
259. Kyle Clifton 74
260. Jim Dunaway 74
261. Mel Branch 73
262. Harry Galbreath 73
263. Rulon Jones 73
264. Frank Minnifield 73
265. Dwight Clark 72
266. Ken Clarke 72
267. Ben Davidson 72
268. Tom Delone 72
269. Larry McCarren 72
270. Tommy Nobis 72
271. Gerry Philbin 72
272. John Zook 72
273. Doug Betters 71
274. John David Crow 71
275. Herm Edwards 71
276. Bill Fralic 71
277. Cedrick Hardman 71
278. Charley Hennigan 71
279. Brian Kelley 71
280. Babe Parilli 71
281. Jim Youngblood 71
282. Sam Cunningham 70
283. Bryan Hinkle 70
284. Karl Kassulke 70
285. Frank Lemaster 70
286. Mike Pruitt 70
287. Jerry Sherk 70
288. Keena Turner 70
289. Wayne Hawkins 69
290. Chris Burford 68
291. Pete Retzlaff 67
292. George Saimes 67
293. John Wooten 67
294. Tom Banks 66
295. Thom Darden 66
296. John Taylor 66
297. Lionel Taylor 66
298. Ernie Ladd 65
299. Keith Millard 65
300. Paul Wiggin 65
301. Stew Barber 64
302. Bobby Hunt 64
303. Jim Lee Hunt 64
304. Earl Faison 64
305. Harry Jacobs 64
306. Robert Jackson 64
307. Roynell Young 63
308. Billy Cannon 62
309. Paul Rochester 62
310. George Webster 61
311. Goose Gonsoulin 60
312. John Tracey 60
313. Kenny Graham 59
314. Tom Keating 59
315. Ike Lassiter 59
316. Bob Trumpy 59
317. Todd Christensen 57
318. Elbert Dubenion 57
319. George Sauer 57
320. Irv Eatman 55
321. Don Floyd 55
322. Paul Lowe 55
323. Monte Coleman 54
324. Billy Johnson 54
325. Keith Lincoln 54
326. Del Shofner 54
327. Larry Garron 53
328. Rosey Grier 53
329. Curtis McClinton 53
330. Larry Morris 53
331. Jim Nance 53
332. Rick Upchurch 53
333. Abe Woodson 53
334. Keith Jackson 52
335. Bill Mathis 51
336. Matt Snell 51
337. Tom Day 50
338. Rich Jackson 50
339. Ron Saul 50
340. Marlin Briscoe 49
341. Rodney Holman 49
342. Paul Maguire 49
343. Al Bemiller 48
344. Booker Edgerson 48
345. Jerrel Wilson 48
346. Dave Kocourek 47
347. Speedy Duncan 46
348. Wahoo McDaniel 46
349. Cookie Gilchrist 45
350. Howard Mudd 44
WOW there’s 175-350 years of senior elections LOL
And what do the numbers indicate, and under what “system” does Ron McDole rank #4??? (i don’t even have him in my top 5) and above 5x all pro Howley?? And Gradishar at #59….LOL
Pro football reference’s av stat if it would help I could shorten it
any list is great, regardless of length, I just keep mine to 50 as it forces one to be selective and focus on those with minimum of multiple all pro or pro bowls and other honors that really tend to reflect chances they will be elected one day
and personally I am not a big fan of av scoring, from PFR I prefer their HOFm as I think it better mirrors how voters view candidates by position and also places candidates relative to current PFHOFers and average HOFm score by position
Any word yet besides Joe Klecko of who finished on the 15-senior short list? Any names who were not on the 12-senior list last year?
Yeah, I dont think Norm Snead will ever have to worry about making the HOF anytime soon … haha
According to Clark Judge, Branch is getting buzz with Riley of course. If Howley emerged I would be thrilled …
brian i dont think they will go with branch considering they went with pearson last year i think its a defensive player this year
I agree with Robert, will be Gradishar or Riley, no way they go cowboys again (Howley) or 70s WR (Branch)
I hope its not Klecko but would happy for him, just feel others are deserving but I do advocate for interior/nose tackles but would rather see Smerlas or Baumhower/Krumrie.
I have klecko ahead of krumrie and smerlas and baumhower head of klecko
I would be good with Klecko or Riley but would rather see Gradishar, Howley or Branch.
As per Clark Judge, the seniors committee is meeting next week (week of August 23rd)
https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/hall-senior-committee-class-of-2022
Bill I’m pretty sure they wont go with howley and branch because of two things. 1. Two cowboys in a row and two wide receivers in a row
oh i did an experiment that paul might be interested in here are the 50 best seniors according to hofm
1. Jim Tyrer 105.63
2. Del Shofner 104.93
3. Ken Anderson 82.99
4. Dave Grayson 82.93
5. L.C. Greenwood 81.65
6. Harold Jackson 81.24
7. Larry Grantham 81.00
8. Lester Hayes 80.83
9. Lionel Taylor 80.19
10. Boyd Dowler 79.93
11. Pete Retzlaff 79.12
12. Cliff Branch 77.86
13. Roger Craig 77.48
14. Bobby Boyd 75.95
15. Jimmy Patton 75.50
16. Ralph Neely 75.40
17. Stanley Morgan 74.62
18. Joe Jacoby 74.55
19. Harvey Martin 74.05
20. Butch Byrd 72.93
21. Sterling Sharpe 72.25
22. Randy Gradishar 69.80
23. Charley Hennigan 68.93
24. Art Powell 68.72
25. Dick Schafrath 67.75
26. Chuck Howley 67.58
27. Dick Anderson 67.15
28. Joe Fortunato 66.80
29. Isiah Robertson 66.40
30. Roman Gabriel 66.38
31. Joe Theismann 66.35
32. Cookie Gilchrist 66.30
33. Bob Kuechenberg 66.23
34. Wes Chandler 65.65
35. John Brodie 65.53
36. Tom Sestak 65.08
37. Cornell Green 63.90
38. Earl Faison 63.50
39. Deron Cherry 63.08
40. Louis Wright 62.40
41. Karl Mecklenburg 62.15
42. Larry Brown 61.60
43. Carroll Dale 61.43
44. Louis Wright 61.23
45. Gary Collins 60.75
46. Lee Roy Jordan 60.28
47. Jack Kemp 60.28
48. Maxie Baughan 60.25
49. Gary Clark 60.20
50. Steve McMichael 60.18
Great job, Robert the Greatest …
Many great names that are HOF worthy …
thank you very much brian im suprised that shofner is in the number 2 spot in the rankings
Surprised Lionel Taylor was rated so high …
An interesting list based upon postseason success as well, which is why players like Dowler, Byrd, Hennigan and Theismann are so high on the list … for some reason, Louis Wright is listed twice ?
Any such list is still based on subjective means of creating what is counted and how it is evaluated and “scored”, I don’t think HOFm is perfect or only measure/evaluation to consider, but of the few that are attempting to create such a quantitative system it is an interesting one to examine.
Well said, Paul. I’ve had some fun looking at the results since PFR added it. I also think they have evolved a bit over time—certainly more position grouping have been done. I wonder if the inputs have been modified (consciously or unconsciously) based on a results oriented basis. I.e., Lott was “better” than Reed, so let’s increase the value of championships in the formula, etc. (for the record, I would disagree with this sentiment as Ed Reed is one of the three best defensive player I’ve had the pleasure to watch along with LT and Reggie White).
That said, it is a fun metric to explore and I’ve generally found the results conform to my thoughts or expectation or at least are thought provoking.
something that brian might be interested in
Sacks
Joe Klecko 78
Keith Millard 58
Tom Sestak 52
Bob Baumhower 39.5
Tim Krumrie 34.5
Fred Smerlas 29
Sacks Average
Tom Sestak 7.5
Joe Klecko 6.5
Keith Millard 6.5
Bob Baumhowr 4.4
Tim Krumrie 2.8
Fred Smerlas 2.0
All Pros
Tom Sestak 6
Bob Baumhower 5
Fred Smerlas 5
Keith Millard 4
Joe Klecko 2
Tim Krumrie 2
Pro Bowls
Bob Baumhower 5
Fred Smerlas 5
Joe Klecko 4
Tom Sestak 4
Tim Krumrie 2
Keith Millard 2
Good call Robert, like I stated on PFRA, Klecko could be a safe pick and get the senior nomination, though I feel Smerlas, Baumhower and Krumrie were better nose/shade tackles and others were better pass rushers at DE. Though he had a 20 sack season, he only had one other year with double digit sacks but he was tough and played hurt like a Dan Hampton.
Larry Fitzgerald I believe will retire unless a better team than Arizona signs him. He admitted this week, his heart isnt into playing and if he retires along with Gore and Peterson, into a crazy 2026 ? HOF class that Paul brought up …
They really need to clear this queue this year because by 2024, the classes are really going to heat up …
Brian ill agree with you on smerlas and baumhower not as much on krumrie thats why l like sestak more than krumrie
According to Rick Gosselin the senior committee meets Tuesday (Aug 24)
Thanks Paul …
Big day indeed. Though alot of us want Howley, it probably wont happen. Gradishar or Wistert makes the most sense but Riley and maybe Branch have momentum, though I would be surprised if receivers go back-to-back. Craig, Klecko or Nobis are safe picks that shouldnt ruffle feathers but who knows ?
Could someone out of left field like Dilweg, Lewellen, Emerson emerge, though its doubtful ?
We cant count out QBs as well, like Anderson, Isbell or Simms, though I would still put in Conerly first … I know, Simms is doubtful but with two championships overrall – though one with injury, he is ahead of most other than Anderson.
Brian: You omitted Brees, Witten, Vinatieri, Pouncey, and Rivers. It is therefore conceivable, and possibly likely, that more than 1/3 of the final 15 would be first ballot nominees in 2026 (in my order of likely actual election in 2026):
Brees (lock),
Fitzgerald (lock),
AP (near lock),
Witten (50/50),
Gore (outside chance),
Vinatieri (outside chance),
Pouncey (doubtful but could make final 15), and
Rivers (doubtful but could make final 15).
Loaded class in 2026. And I’m omitting long shots for eventual induction like Olsen, Thomas Davis, Edelman, Demaryius Thomas…
Brian I’d be happy with the following. Nobis Wistert Riley Gradishar Klecko. If they went with dilweg llewellyn emerson my mouth would drop
I meant verne lewellen
Yeah, Paul did a good job of bringing up those other players already but it will definitely be crowded. If it truly fell that way, though I am hoping Peterson will continue to play, I think Brees and Peterson would be 1st ballot but the rest would wait, including Fitzgerald but we will see. Though I would like to see Witten become 1st ballot, other leftover players like Freeney, Allen, Gates, Suggs, Smith, Willis, or others on the queue may get their chance.
Big Enchilada Tuesday
Wish List
Senior … Howley/Gradishar
Coach … Parker
Contributor … Kilroy
Predictions
Senior … Gradishar
Coach … Coryell
Contributor … Kraft
Tried to post but it didnt receive …
Coach finalist will be selected also on Tuesday (same committee as seniors), we don’t know when contributors committee meeting but likely another day this coming week or next
Two out of three … Aint bad … haha
I truly will be happy for whoever is elected. Hopefully, there is no major controversy amongst fans … we will see
=Senior:Gradishar
Coach ; Parker
Contributor:Clark Shaughnessy
If the go offense again people who support defensive players will be pissed off and rightly so
regardless of whom is senior finalist selected tomorrow there will be social media anger and outrage from someone: fanbases of Bengals, Raiders, Jets, Broncos, Cowboys just to name a few depending on player……. don’t see the coach or contributor selections creating the same level of anger
Based on comments from various messages on PFRA and Eye Test for Two, the follow names seem almost certain to be in the final 15 seniors in 2021:
1. Howley
2. Nobis
3. Grandishar
4. Riley
5. Klecko
6. Branch
7. Meador
8. Anderson
Any other leaked names that I’m missing?
One more: Craig.
So unofficially, we have 9 of the 15 (which was the confirmed number).
Any others?
Gosselin mentioned “about 15” so possible that is not exact number, could be less???
I think it will come down to Gradishar or Riley, outside chances for Meador or Klecko
correction, yes there are 15 senior candidates being considered by committee tomorrow (I don’t know other 6, but can’t think any are realistic picks tomorrow): Greenwood? Kuntz?? Morgan?? others we have not seen in recent elections?? Others left over from centennial finalists? pre 1960s players???
Looks like support among the seniors committee for Howley is very strong, but with Harris (2020) and Pearson (2021) in recent years I really don’t think he will be selected for 2022. Perhaps in 2023 or 2024 but at age 85 could be his time is running out to receive honor while still alive, sadly increasingly worry I think he won’t.
the 1 benefit that howley has is that he has never been considered a modern era player (Harris) or a senior Player (Harris, Pearson0 That is the biggest benefit that he could have
My final five Seniors
Randy Gradishar
Chuck Howley
Joe Klecko
Eddie Meador
Ken Riley
I have heard about Meador as well but dont see it with all the safeties getting in with Butler probably joining as well. Would be fantastic though …
With Howley there could be a push since he is elderly but everybody would howl about recent Cowboys but the Steelers are doing the same thing.
It really should be a defensive player but we cant discount Branch as well …
If the committee based the seniors upon past finalists then these players will be considered.
Conerly … seven time finalist but doubtful
Kuechenberg … six time finalist
Greenwood … five time finalist ?
Hayes … four times
Gradishar … three times
Jacoby … three times
Coryell … six times as a coach
From what I know and can tell, seniors committee has never really given much consideration to times a senior candidate was modern finalist-in fact some evidence that it may be hurting their senior case as there is view that they had their case in front of committee who decided not to look at them, time to give others a chance to be presented-it a view Gosselin strongly holds.
If Gosselin is among five committee members meeting tomorrow (I have no idea if he is), he certainly will be pushing for Meador and in a room with just five people a strong voice can carry weight. Case against Meador for 2022 is all the recent safeties elected including seniors Harris and Shell.
And committee has rarely expressed interest in age or health as a factor in their decision-heard that directly from a voter in the past.
Really think it will come down to Riley vs Gradishar and could easily go either way.
Gosselin is one of the five this year. Ira Kaufman is not one of the five this year. No idea which of the other seven members will make up the four voting this year. Also no idea about the gold jacket advisors.
Yea unless volunteered up by the voter we never know the five or the advisors since Hall doesn’t release either list or players considered or results of voting, will see social post in morning when meeting starts and finalist selected announced around 1-2p
The Breakdown between Harris Howley Pearson
All Pro’s
Chuck Howley 6
Cliff Harris 5
Drew Pearson 3
Pro Bowl
Cliff Harris 6
Chuck Howley 6
Drew Pearson 3
NFL All Decade (1970’s)
Cliff Harris
Drew Pearson
The Breakdown of Senior Wide Receivers
Harold Jackson 579
Stanley Morgan 557
Billy Howton 503
Cliff Branch 501
Del Shofner 349
Receiving Yards
Stanley Morgan 10716
Harold Jackson 10372
Cliff Branch 8685
Billy Howton 8459
Del Shofner 6470
Touchdowns
Harold Jackson 76
Stanley Morgan 72
Cliff Branch 67
Billy Howton 61
Del Shofner 51
All Pro
Del Shofner 5
Cliff Branch 3
Harold Jackson 3
Billy Howton 2
Stanley Morgan 2
Pro Bowl
Harold Jackson 5
Del Shofner 5
Cliff Branch 4
Billy Howton 4
Stanley Morgan 4
All Decade
Del Shofner 1960’s NFL
Something has been nagging at me for a while, and I’ve not seen anyone address it: Riley v. Parrish.
How can the selectors be comfortable selecting Riley over his teammate Parrish?
Yes, Riley has better numbers including INTs and games played, including being a full time starter throughout his career (which effectively means Riley played three more full seasons than Parrish). However, while Riley had a longer career (which is undoubtedly significant), the two players’ per game INTs are effectively the same: 0.3 per game with 2.9 INT return yards for Riley v. 2.8 for Parrish.
Again playing effectively, longer is important. And Riley leads in those categories.
BUT (and this is a HUGE but), Riley and Parrish played the same position as teammates. Therefore, the direct comparisons are much easier. They played the same games versus the same teams with the same sportswriters watching. And when they did, those sports writers voted Parrish the superior players almost every year.
Riley famously never made a pro bowl. The HOF voters apparently blame that on his playing in Cincinnati. But then how do you explain Parrish making 6 pro bowls when Riley and Parrish were teammates? Did the anti-Cincinnati bias somehow only impact Riley?
Parrish famously had a dispute with Paul Brown (joining a long and distinguished list), and was traded to my WFT (confessing my bias), where Parrish made another two pro bowls and an all pro (to be fair Riley also received one AP all pro in his career…again famously in his last season).
Therefore, post season honors is Parrish 8/1/None v. Riley 0/1/None. This is a runaway for Parrish.
While PFR’s AV can be a high questionable statistic, it is designed for comparing teammates. And during their years as teammates, Parrish received a higher AV 5 out of 8 years and had a cumulative advantage 82 to 75.
Now to be fair, Riley’s career AV is greater than Parrish’s (133 v. 122), which is to be expected given his longer career. Their “weighted AVs” are effectively identical 96 (Riley) v. 95 (Parrish), again showing that Riley’s lead is based on playing longer, which again IS important.
Now the uncomfortable issue: INTs.
Parrish already seems the better player to me, but paradoxically, INTs actually clinches Parrish OVER Riley for me.
When Parrish was younger and Riley was a little more established, Parrish lead him in INTs 1970-1972), but once Parrish became a pro bowl stalwart (974-1977), Riley had MUCH better INT numbers than Parrish:
1970*: Parrish 5 INTs to 4 for Riley
1971*: 7 to 5
1972: 5 to 3
1973: 2 to 2
1974*: 0 to 5
1975*: 1 to 6
1976*: 2 to 9
1977*: 3 to 2
* – Years Parrish made the Pro Bowl.
While I’m not certain, I’ve read that Parrish’s first two pro bowls were helped by his return ability, which makes sense for a young player.
But from 1974-1977, Parrish makes the Pro Bowl all four years while totally only 6 INTs. Meanwhile, Riley had 22 over the same time period but never made the pro bowl. What was going on? My understanding is that AFC QBs simply stopped throwing at Parrish and threw more at Riley, giving him way more opportunities to get INTs. As many, many commentators have noted, INTs are a poor judge of CBs (as opposed to Safeties) because CBs with lots of INTs are typically being picked on.
Notably, after Parrish leaves for Washington, Riley’s INTs drop because he is the one being avoided. Parish’s actually go up in Washington, perhaps because NFC QBs wanted to test him. Or maybe his play started to slip and he suddenly got more opportunities for INTs.
Either way, the facts that Parrish led Riley in INTs 4 seasons to 3 seasons (with one tie) shows that Parrish didn’t have “hands of stone” or took “bad angles.” It was much more about opportunities, which is a very strong endorsement for Parrish over Riley.
This leads me to tomorrow.’s vote. If Riley is the Senior nominee, what does this say about Parrish? If Riley isn’t even the best CB on his teams, should he be the senior nomination? How would the voters address this? Has Turney or anyone else explained it?
By all accounts, Riley was a great man. I think he has a really interesting HOF case, but for me, it is a HOF case that has to take a backseat to the HOF case of his superior teammate, Parrish.
John Turney of PFJ has long made the case that Parrish has a stronger case than Riley. And no the voters would have hard time explaining that. Turney isn’t a voter, certainly doesn’t agree with them all the time and I would guess would strongly speak out against such a bad decision of voters
ive addressed it several times on this site several times about riley vs parrish and about which one is more worthy for canton and i go back and forth on the 2 my personal preference is Lemar parrish but id be happy about riley in order of pengals seniors its a tie between parrish and riley with anderson 3
Turney and Pro Football Journal said exactly the same thing Justin. Parrish was like the Deion Sanders of the 70s … scored in a number of ways and had tight man-for-man coverage, while being explosive on special teams. Bengal fans are making their voices heard over Riley though … that and his ball-hawking ability. He may get the nod over Branch, Gradishar, Howley etc …
Haha … we all said the same thing at once.
what they did after they were teammates
Lemar Parrish 78-82
Ints 22
YDS 108
TDS 0
AV Int 4.4
Ken Riley 78-83
Ints 25
YDS 225
TDS 3
AV INT 4.2
We may agree or disagree but if Riley gets close again without grabbing the spot, maybe Parrish could be cancelling him out again ?
I still believe Dilweg/Lewellen and Scott/Anderson are going through the same thing …
Brian i think the same thing as you do with dilweg/lewellen scott/ anderson riley/Parrish cancelling each other out could that also be the case with nobis/gradishar
You might be right Robert but I agree on Gradishar more, while you like Nobis … its pretty close and hurts Howley as well.
I think we both suspect that Turney is getting frustrated despite waiting on the results like us … he isnt the biggest fan of the committee.
Care to weigh in TonyP ? … I know, I sound like a broken record … ha ha
without a doubt it does hurt nobis gradishar howley my question is does it help other candidates like ones we havent mentioned
We cant discount an offensive player like Craig … wasnt Little the last senior back selected ? Craig could take away some of the bad taste from that selection. I really dont know hardly anyone who agreed with it. I dont think many people would disagree with Craig. It will be interesting if the selection tomorrow isnt one of the nine remaining guys from the Blue Ribbon Panel ?
Turney admitted he would like either Gradishar or Howley
Remaning Cent Seniors
1. Roger Craig
2. Cliff Branch
3. Randy Gradishar
4. Tommy Nobis
5. Lavern Dilweg
6. Ox Emerson
7. Cecil Isbell
8. Verne Lewellen
9. Al Wistert
Sometimes when it get this close to decision and debate been going on for months it’s easy to over think and lose sight of where it appears we are at: it’s going to be Riley or Gradishar
Turney won’t like Riley pick but he has stated his support of the voters and committee many times and that they get 90% of choices correct, that is a hard job and decision. Now he hated BRP and centennial class and tosses scorn on Baker and Board a plenty
but if they go with gradishar does that open the door for curtis howley nobis stratton Baughan paul i have noticed that too about JT flipping back and forth on the comm
and if they go riley does that open the door for meador parrish grayson boyd
I really don’t think selecting Gradishar or Riley suddenly opens part for other LBs or safeties. All those guys are already in the mix
Turney doesnt want that committee average going from 90 percent to 85, if they select Riley … haha
Knox, Shanahan, Seifert, Coughlin are Not part of the Finalists list for coaches …
Schottenheimer Reeves Vermeil shaughnessy Parker Coryell holmgren are the coaching finalists
coach nominees are: Dick Vermeil, Mike Holmgren, Dan Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, Don Coryell, Buddy Parker, and Clark Shaughnessy.
All good choices Paul, though I do wish we had two seniors and the coaches and contributors were combined.
Howley, Gradishar or Branch would be my Top 3 for Seniors. I think it’ll be Gradishar.
Welcome back BoKnows34 !
John Turney on PFJ has posted meeting is not until this evening????
Cheers Brian
Now that the NFL season is almost here I should be around more often.
What do you think Paul ? Prime time announcement ? Nearly 4pm eastern now.
Damn, I guess youre right … hopefully they know and will just announce both choices later …
sounds like meeting has not even started, will be later this evening before we know apparently ???
Almost like waiting on a baby to be born … haha
Branch and Vermeil have been selected as finalists as per Rick Gosselin
Wow ! Another receiver !
Congratulations to Cliff Branch and Dick Vermeil !
I like Vermeil but dont agree with the pick.
would not have been my picks but don’t have problems with either, surprised we are getting 3 consecutive WRs from 70s era but Branch is deserving
Both are deserving and I am okay but defense should have been the pick this year. Still the trend towards modern coaches/players.
Obviously delighted and surprised about Branch.
will have to wait and see who the other seniors were considered, very possible pre 60s guys are getting left out of the discussion by voters
my theory proved correct with riley and parrish and nobis howley and gradishar cancelling each other out
Hearing a rumor that Klecko was 1st runner-up …
At least Branch was part of BRP
Hopefully Howley next year !!
To be fair Brian they did go defense in 2018-19 with Brazile and Robinson
Its amazin all these 70s players/coaches getting elected …
Maybe it will help the 60s or 80s players but who knows when another pre-70s, player or coach will get elected ?
Youre right Robert but like Turney said, 100 more offensive players to defensive players in the HOF and 7-5 advantage since Centennial Class …
Can someone ask Turney or Gooselin to disclose the rest of the final 15 senior nominees? We already know most of them anyway.
According to Clark Judge, Parker was the runner-up to Vermeil …
Turney did a list on PFRA site … not sure if its in order or official ?
His list is alphabetized rather than in order of voting … waiting to hear if the players are official, including Jim Ray Smith, Matthews, Kenn, Hayes, Meador, Baughan and Sharpe.
Anderson, Howley, Riley, Klecko and Morgan as well … Unofficially, still
Thanks, Brian. Just noticed the list includes 16 names — not the 15 Gosselin and others have mentioned…
If official, very disappointed in hat Jacoby has fallen behind Kenn…
With Turney it could be simply opinion but if official, surprised Jim Ray Smith made the list though he is deserving. Sharpe maybe gaining momentum as well, which could hurt Harold Jackson but Morgan is there also …
Did Geadishar make it?
Unofficial list of seniors discussed today (from John Turney, just in alphabetical order), Hall never releases officially: Ken Anderson, Maxie Baughan,Cliff Branch,Roger Craig,Randy Gradishar, Lester Hayes, Chuck Howley, Mike Kenn, Joe Klecko,Eddie Meador, Clay Matthews
Stanley Morgan, Tommy Nobis,Ken Riley, Sterling Sharpe, Jimmy Ray Smith
It is about time Branch was nominated. It’s an absolute shame he isn’t around to see it, but he absolutely deserves it.
Is the committee insinuating Carmichael > Pearson > Branch? Is that what they wanted us to believe? I don’t buy it.
Furthermore, as glad as I am that Cliff Branch, a big omission, may finally get his due, none of Howton, Shofner nor Jackson still have a bust. It ain’t right.
I’m glad for Cliff Branch. I also hopes this puts to rest some of the misplaced theories about “they will never induct 2 WR’s in a row, They will won’t induct another 7o’s Raiders, It goes offense, defense, offense.
Each player that is looked at, stands on their own merit. I do not believe that many football educated people. Worry about any trends.
Glad for Branch and Hope Howley, Gradishar and Hayes get this opportunity next year.
Pretty clear non voting advisors can play huge role plus strong recent public endorsements from peers. And there won’t be another Raider elected as senior for quite sometime
Ken Riley fans having a meltdown on social media. The cult of Riley has replaced the Clay Matthews cult.
I politely ask them to explain to me why Riley and not Parrish and only receive insults in return. Having more INTs than other HOFers apparently makes him a HOFer. When I point out Dave Brown there’s radio silence. Thankfully I have this place for my sanity.
Spot on Corey … Howton and Shofner may never get a chance. I know what your saying Bill, with Howley, Gradishar and Wistert having as much merit as anybody. Thats why I really thought they would go defense.
That 76 Raiders champion now has 13 members to the HOF …
Vermeil could coach and was an excellent broadcaster/color as well but would he have succeeded more if he wasnt working his players to death ? He backed off around 1998 which gave him a later championship but didnt have the defense with the Chiefs …
I’ll just leave this stuff here.
Pro Bowls
Branch : 4
Carmichael: 4
Pearson: 3
First Team All- Pro
Branch: 3
Pearson: 3
Carmichael: 0
Receptions
Branch: 501
Pearson: 489
Receiving Yards
Branch: 8,685
Pearson: 7,822
Touchdowns
Branch: 67
Pearson: 48
Times led the league in receiving yards
Branch: 1
Carmichael: 1
Pearson: 1
Times leading the NFL in touchdown receptions.
Branch: 2
Carmichael:0
Pearson: 0
to Be fair Carmichael has a second team all pro selection this will be my last post for a while as i will be taking a break for personal reasons
Maybe Harold Jackson will have a chance if the seniors put in two per season in 2025 but with just two spots left, we will see if the seniors are on defense ?
im thinking that will be the case brian they will go defense with the last two spots the question who breaks out of the LB Saftey DB logjam
2012 was first year I started tracking (as best as was possible given unofficial “leaks” and names may be missing some years) the list of seniors considered by committee, names from that list still not in, and have continued to appear on list in recent years are: Anderson, Greenwood, Howley, Curtis, Meador, Hayes.
Others that have appeared repeatedly since 2013 (not every year but more than once, and perhaps not recently) include Kuechenberg, Nobis, Riley, Gradishar.
So frequent returnees on seniors nominees list since 2012 who were on 2022 list: Howley Gradishar Nobis Anderson Riley Meador Hayes – no reason not to expect all on 2023 list and among top contenders.
Another change/rotation on the senior committee next year Paul ? Every year ?
senior committee of 9 members stays same (unless someone retires and is replaced) but yes the 5 in the room making the final selection rotates to a different mix of 5 each year as do the 2 non-voting advisors (usually PFHOFers), and we never know those 7 names in advance of the meeting.
Thanks …
Since I was wrong about a receiver joining the Class of 2022, I wonder if another modern one will get voted in ? I would think no but we will see ?
Updated Modern Class For 2022
Wishlist
D Woodson
Nalen
Thomas
Seymour
Ware
Prediction
Boselli
Butler
Thomas
Seymour
Ware/Barber
If not Ware on 1st Ballot … Ronde Barber
If the Seniors go linebacker next year, I’m fully expecting it to be a lesser deserving candidate like Nobis or Jordan instead of the three biggest snubs of Howley, Baughan and Gradishar.
Watch the Seniors nominate a lesser deserving linebacker like Nobis or Jordan instead of Howley, Baughan or Gradishar. They used to be so good with their nomination process, but they’ve dropped the ball the last couple of years.
Wrong
Pearson (first team all decade) and Branch (3x all pro, still in top career playoff receiving stats) we’re not surprising selections nor “dropping ball” sure we could debate others that could be better picks but it’s all subjective and as centennial class finalists and repeated senior committee nominees their selections are fair and reasonable
I guess my thinking has evolved over the years on the senior candidate selection, as long as a player is in top 10 or 15 most deserving then their selection is really not that surprising or disappointing to me. I think BRP missed out on 2-3 of their 10 senior selections but in recent years senior committee has been considering decent list of players and selections reflect that. Frankly I was more upset in past than recently, a past that saw Culp, Robinson and Little selected over many other more deserving, but since 2015 committee in my view has done better job. Pearson and Branch picked back to back as WRs from same era was surprising, but they are deserving and were among top seniors considered in recent years, they getting in not really a surprise, perhaps a few years earlier then we may have been thinking .I really do think that in the next several elections we will see (in some unknown unpredictable order) Graishar, Howley, Kelcko, Riley, Meador, Emerson, Craig, Baughan, Sharpe elected.
corey i disagree on a number of things 1., the senior committee dropping the ball with the seniors the last couple of years and 2. i really dont see lee roy jordan and nobis as less worthy considering 1 of them jordan made 5 pro bowls 2 nobis was an all decade selection
Paul: Do you think its possible that somehow jordan and howley and gradishar nobis and baughn cancel each other out
Though Branch is deserving, its kind of lazy going with three 70s receivers in a row but maybe the five voters were too deadlocked on other candidates and went safe ?
When is contributor ? Would like to see either Vainisi, Kotal or Kilroy but think it will be Kraft.
brian if i were to guess they deadlocked on howley nobis gradishar riley parrish
Paul…you said you have been tracking the leaked senior finalist short lists…
The years I have seen them leaked are 2012, 2013, 2020 (though that one was publicly mentioned), 2021, and 2022.
Do you still have documented any years I havent seen?
And do you still have 2013 too? I recall it being virtually the same as 2012 except Tinglehoff was on there…but I’d like to take a look at that one again.
Maybe Robert but I am guessing Parrish wasnt part of the debate. Maybe trying to pick a linebacker with Baughan in the mix ?
Klecko is another safe pick that could have gotten more attention but they stayed with a BRP finalist …
i think they deadlocked on baughan howley nobis gradishar with each one cancelling the other out in terms of klecko i could see him in competition with smerlas like you have stated bw
Absolutely the Senior committee dropped the ball. Howley, Baughan, Gradishar, Howton, Shofner, Jackson, Meador and Patton all still wait, while Carmichael, Pearson, Sprinkle and Covert all have busts. Branch isn’t here to see his overdue nomination.
The Senior Committee used to have home runs with Hanburger, Tinglehoff and Robinson. They’ve had all these opportunities to clear the logjam and some of the very best are still waiting to get out.
Beginning with the Centennial Class, out of 12 elected players, 6 played many of their years in the 1970s … will that help or hinder other 70s players like Gradishar, Riley, Anderson, Jackson, Greenwood, Kuechenberg, Parrish ?
Carmichael, Sprinkle and Covert weren’t elected by the seniors committee
Brian I actually think recent elections show sustained interest by votes in 70s early 80s candidate – could continue with Gradishar Howley klecko Craig and even Riley and Anderson eventually
Corey : The only reason there is a back log on seniors is not because the senior comm dropping the ball since theres more blame on the modern era writers for never considering them as modern era guys.
Ill pose this add ques is it possible that howton not in the hof is because a. bobby walston was selected over him for the 50’s team b.the Teams he played on werent good C. His records for rec and receiving yds were broken a year after his retirement by raymond berry d. his nflpa involvement
‘Carmichael, Sprinkle and Covert weren’t elected by the seniors committee’
Were they not nominated by them?
‘ Corey : The only reason there is a back log on seniors is not because the senior comm dropping the ball since theres more blame on the modern era writers for never considering them as modern era guys.’
Yet the Senior Committee, having made some very good choices in Hanburger, Tinggelhoff, Johnny Robinson, Jerry Kramer, Brazile, Butler, Guy, Branch, Stanfel, has also given us some underwhelming choices in Dave Robinson, Stabler and Pearson.
‘i really dont see lee roy jordan and nobis as less worthy considering 1 of them jordan made 5 pro bowls 2 nobis was an all decade selection’
Profiles
Nobis: 1/5
Jordan: 1/5
Howley: 5/6
Baughan: 2/9
Gradishar: 2/7, DPOY
Not to mention Nobis was All Decade, but Baughan should’ve been on there and was snubbed, telling me All-Decade was wrong.
I cannot in good conscience support the candidacies of Nobis and Jordan while the big three at linebacker still wait. I just can’t.
Thats what I am thinking Paul, yeah the BRP elected Carmichael, Hill, Shell and Harris who mostly played in the 70s, then the senior committee kept the ball rolling with finalists, Branch and Pearson, which means maybe they are clearing the 70s candidates to make way for the eighties, or as was mentioned on the PFRA site today, maybe most of the voters have more a generational attachment to that era of players ? That may bode well for Craig, Gradishar, Hayes etc … yet might not be good news for the super seniors that took up five finalists spots with the BRP … Not that it matters till next year but does anyone know who the top five finalists might have been behind Branch ?
Would mean. then, the door would be closed on Pre-1970s players? I sure hope not.
Thats why I hope it goes back to two seniors per year in 2025 … hopefully Corey, it will give those guys a chance because more quality players from the eighties, early nineties are entering the senior pool, with Matthews and Sharpe getting attention this past week.
I am not very optimistic at this point for pre 1960 seniors .
And BRP panel selected senior centennial class finalists and those elected – 1/2 of BRP were not hall committee members, different group making choices and different process
We don’t know who finished next in senior voting behind Branch – sometimes rumors float out but we never know officially
To my knowledge senior committee has shown no interest in Lee Roy Jordon (has not appeared as nominee to be discussed by committee) so I see no potential path for his election nor is he hurting cases for Howley, Gradishar or Nobis. It is very possible that Howley and Gradishar-both multiple appearance over last decade on list of seniors considered – are blocking each other as voters finding it hard to pick between one BUT both have been close in terms of finishing high in final senior committee votes-one will break soon through to be the finalist, likely both in next 4 years.
Its pretty clear one major focus of seniors committee (looking at results from 2021 and 2021 selections) is addressing remaining centennial class senior finalists, giving Craig, Gradishar, and Nobis an edge, along with Klecko. Always possible Emerson, Wistert, Dilweg (and also Baughan and Meadoer-2022 nominees) get in one day, but don’t seem to be priority of committee, which is unfortunate. Anderson and Riley are perhaps further down the priority list. Howley is the wildcard, he’s clearly deserving and received strong support from senior committee in last decade (rumors that he has finished in top 5 numerous times). With Harris and Pearson elections, Howley will continue to wait but it will not be very much longer, I would say perhaps 2024 or 2025. I really doubt any other senior is in the mix for the near future.
Like Zoneblitz, Not In The HOF has been a fan-rabid, player advocate website with interesting takes on who they would like to see in the HOF over the years …
Not In The HOF Top 50 Players
D Ware
Gradishar
Howley
Greenwood
Craig
Holt
K Anderson
Dilweg
Wayne
R Barber
Branch … just elected
S Smith
Tyrer
Nobis
Willis
O Taylor
L Hayes
Wisniewski
Cherry
Parrish
Z Thomas
Baughan
J Marshall
J Allen
Gabriel
Cunningham
H Walker
Sharpe
Brodie
A Johnson
Conerly
Ward
Kuechenberg
Wistert
Seymour
Boselli
B Boyd
Jacoby
Jordan
Mills
Riley
N Smith
E Allen
Watters
Klecko
O Anderson
Gastineau
Lipscomb
Patton
Abraham
Lots of big names, though others could substitute as well. If the seniors could be three per year like Bob Fox, Rick Gosselin suggest, could clear alot of names though many people feel the Hall is getting too big.
Many with Hall including some voters think it is getting too big, too many getting in, standards are lowering. And in all fairness they have a valid point. I think Vermeil (or perhaps it was Cowher) has really open the doors for single SB coaches and messed up the entire coaches queue.
But even if you were to add only 6 PFHOFers per year, its still going to grow fast from current 354 – in decade would exceed 414! At 8 year year, yes it would increase faster to 434 in decade time. BUT the concern or perception that too many are getting in and is less “exclusive” is real and exists-even though many of us would disagree. It will have impact on any discussions to go above 8 per year for sometime. I would be pleased (and am expecting,) a return to 2 seniors per year starting in 2025, although I would agree with and support 3 seniors a year, its not happening folks.
And I like Not In the Hall, but they need to separate modern from seniors, and plus I disagree with some of their picks (I really don’t think list of those deserving is as high as 50 modern/seniors) and order they rank them. At some point the honor should be exclusive and not every great player is getting into PFHOF.
Class of 2022 contributor to be announced tomorrow afternoon, top contenders appear to be Ralph Hays (started NFL in 1920), Art McNally (long serving official and former NFL director of officiating) or NE Patriots owner Robert Kraft.
Kraft would be an interesting choice for them to pull. Thought maybe the some of the luster would have rubbed off his candidacy, at least for a few years. But who knows, maybe his story has a happy ending after all!
(sorry, had to do it!!)
Hahahahaha
ill add this two of them gradishar and jordan were finalists Gradishar multiple times Jordan once nobis 1 (senior)
Not sure being modern finalists really helps senior candidates, has not helped Jordan who since 2012 has not been among seniors considered, while Gradishar and Howley have been mutiple times, and rumor is that Howley has consistantly finished in final 5 of senior finalist voting, there is clearly more interest in Gradishar and Howley then Jordan (none) and Nobis (limited). Its taking way too long for both but Gradishar and Howley are getting in Hall soon
Art McNally, considered “The Father of Modern Officiating” in the NFL, was selected as the Contributor Finalist for the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2022.
Well deserved congrats art
I wonder if Dick Haley was a finalist…or anyone still with us that wasn’t on the finalist list in 2015-16 or 2020…
Being a football gambler … I have no dog in this hunt …
With Dunn elected, doubtful Haley will get his due John …
i think you mean nunn brian
Yes Robert … long workday …
I got all picks wrong …
You have to give the contributor voters credit for not giving in or being pressured to vote in owners … Diversity is good.
apparently the final vote was 3-2 for McNally, rest assured Kraft is going to be their 2023 finalist
No official announcement by Hall, but if they follow timing of last year, 2022 preliminary list of modern candidates should be released in about two weeks
Though it won’t matter one bit, I am still hoping the preliminary list is longer than recent years so names that have been buried or forgotten or just slipped through the cracks can still register with media and fans in terms of worthy career achievement or comparisons/similarities to other HOF worthy players. Yes, many will be similar or unworthy and not have a snowball’s chance in hell of advancing but being a preliminary list, they can have a chance to be remembered, researched, or known about for the younger fans that may not have known or seen, who they were as players.
I don’t think media or fans pay much attention to the preliminary list nor do they or the players talk about the honor if included, focus is always on the notable first ballot and likely ones to be elected
Again we don’t know officially the other contributors considered by the committee earlier this week for their class of 2020 finalists BUT some names that have floated out whom were considered include Robert Kraft, and scouts Rams’ Eddie Kotal, Chiefs’ Lloyd Wells, and Patriots Bucko Rilroy.
(Based on 2020 centennial class finalists for contributor also very possible Bud Adams, Ralph Hay, Art Modell, Clint Murchison, Seymour Siwoff MAY have also been considered)
Paul i think you meant bucko kilroy in terms of adams and modell do you think they are still penalized for their moves from houston and cleveland
When voters get down to such a small list of finalists to consider, every potential negative aspect of their careers can be highlighted as means of separating candidates, so yes it is very possible the Adams and Modell are being “penalized” for their moves. But truth be told there are other candidates, especially non-owners that are deserving plus I suspect for some voters an intent to be careful about not letting owners dominate the contributors selections.
RIP David Patten
Underrated receiver for NE … another crazy year for football player passings …
Do we think it’s career end for AP and Gore, joining first ballot candidates for class of 2026?
Gore and Fitz … I think AP will get a call after wk one injuries …
Due to bad QBs at Arizona … Fitz only had Warner and Palmer, he probably will be first ballot but with Brees and possibly AP, thats a loaded class with Witten and Gore just missing out …
If all on ballot for 2026 I don’t see how voters keep out Brees, AP and Fitz regardless of any debates about too many first ballot they all deserve it
AP averaged 3.9 per carry in 2020, I doubt he gets a call. Today Ravens signed RB Trenton Cannon to 53-Man Roster, and RB Le’Veon Bell to their practice squad…..didn’t seem they had any interest in Gore or AP
Youre probably right Paul … lost Edwards but bringing in Murray for Ravens … Peters big loss in the secondary. Steelers and Browns have to be hyped !
RIP Mick Tinglehoff. Never missed a game in 17 years!
I think we can agree that tingelhoff was one of the better senior selections
still no announcement from Hall of preliminary list of modern candidates for class of 2022- news should come any time now.
Looks like class of 2022 modern candidate preliminary list to be announced on NFL network Weds Sept 22 at 1p
RIP Roger Brown
Had a great career with Detroit and Los Angeles
Another High End Senior Candidate that will not see his bust with his own eyes! Hopefully some day his extended family can celebrate him in Canton.
I guess it depends on how you define “high end”, on my list of 50 seniors he sits around 20-30th as unfortunately 2 first team all pro senior candidates are all too common as are far too many 3, 4 or even 5 first team all pro senior candidates still not in. I don’t view him as a miss by the voters, just that he falls into a large group of players will similar profiles.
I have a ranked list off a 122 senior candidates and I have Roger Brown ranked #18. So for me, he is on the higher end.
hmmmm #18 seems high for a player with just 2 first team all pro
122 Modern-Era Nominees Announced for Hall of Fame’s Class of 2022
https://www.profootballhof.com/122-modern-era-nominees-announced-for-hall-of-fames-class-of-2022/
QUARTERBACKS
Randall Cunningham, Jake Delhomme, Boomer Esiason, Jeff Garcia, Dave Krieg, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair
RUNNING BACKS
Shaun Alexander, Mike Alstott (FB), Tiki Barber, Earnest Byner, Larry Centers (FB), Corey Dillon, Eddie George, Priest Holmes, Steven Jackson, Jamal Lewis, Eric Metcalf (also WR/PR/KR), Lorenzo Neal (FB), Fred Taylor, Herschel Walker (also KR), Ricky Watters, Brian Westbrook
WIDE RECEIVERS
Anquan Boldin, Troy Brown (also PR/KR), Donald Driver, Henry Ellard (also PR), Devin Hester (also PR/KR), *Torry Holt, Joe Horn, Andre Johnson, Chad Johnson, Derrick Mason, Muhsin Muhammad, Andre Rison, Jimmy Smith, Rod Smith, Steve Smith, Hines Ward, *Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker
TIGHT ENDS
Dallas Clark, Ben Coates, Brent Jones, Heath Miller, Wesley Walls
OFFENSIVE LINEMEN
Willie Anderson (T), Matt Birk (C), *Tony Boselli (T), Lomas Brown (T), Ruben Brown (G), D’Brickashaw Ferguson (T), Kevin Glover (C/G), Jordan Gross (T), Olin Kreutz (C), Jake Long (T), Nick Mangold (C), Logan Mankins (G), Jesse Sapolu (C/G), Jeff Saturday (C), Chris Snee (G), Brian Waters (G), Richmond Webb (T), Erik Williams (T), Steve Wisniewski (G)
DEFENSIVE LINEMEN
John Abraham (DE also LB), *Jared Allen (DE), La’Roi Glover (DT/NT), Casey Hampton (DT/NT), Robert Mathis (DE), Leslie O’Neal (DE), Michael Dean Perry (DT/DE), Simeon Rice (DE), *Richard Seymour (DT), Justin Smith (DE), Neil Smith (DE), Greg Townsend (DE/LB/DT/NT), Justin Tuck (DE), Vince Wilfork (DT/NT), Kevin Williams (DT), Bryant Young (DT)
LINEBACKERS
Cornelius Bennett, Lance Briggs, Tedy Bruschi, London Fletcher, Seth Joyner, Willie McGinest (also DE), *Sam Mills, Hardy Nickerson Sr., Takeo Spikes, Pat Swilling (also DE), *Zach Thomas, DeMarcus Ware, Patrick Willis
DEFENSIVE BACKS
Eric Allen (CB), *Ronde Barber (CB/S), Dre Bly (DB), *LeRoy Butler (S), Nick Collins (S), Antonio Cromartie (CB), Merton Hanks (S), Rodney Harrison (S), Albert Lewis (CB), Tim McDonald (S), Allen Rossum (DB), Asante Samuel (CB), Bob Sanders (S), Charles Tillman (CB), Troy Vincent (CB), Adrian Wilson (S), Darren Woodson (S)
PUNTERS/KICKERS
Gary Anderson (K), Jeff Feagles (P), John Kasay (K), Sean Landeta (P), Ryan Longwell (K), Reggie Roby (P), Matt Turk (P)
SPECIAL TEAMS
Josh Cribbs (KR/PR also WR), Mel Gray (PR/KR also WR), Brian Mitchell (KR/PR also RB), Steve Tasker (ST also WR)
Happy Hardy Nickerson finally made the list.
Probably wont make the Hall with five other Bucs making it but was as good a middle linebacker as any I have seen on tv or in person …
Havent researched yet, who might be missing from last years list …
No Tony Romo …….
No Tom Nalen ? WTF …
No Tom Nalen is absurd…has to be an oversight.
Who is everyone’s top 25 from this list.
Question for everyone…
Of the six slots that are vacant in the modern-era this year in the semifinalists (the five made vacant by the 2021 Class, and the one by Clay Matthews, who transferred to the senior abyss)…who would you like to see occupy those six vacant slots?
First-Year nominees:
DeMarcus Ware
Robert Mathis
Steve Smith
Other (Devin Hester? Andre Johnson? Vince Wilfork?, please specify)
Prior Semifinalists Who Didn’t Qualify Last Year:
Albert Lewis
Leslie O’Neal
Simeon Rice
Ricky Watters
Steve Wisniewski
Modern-Era Guys Never Before Semifinalists Who Have Been Waiting to Join the Queue:
Herschel Walker (Final Year of Modern-Era Eligibility)
Michael Dean Perry (Final Year of Modern-Era Eligibility)
Ben Coates
Priest Holmes
Lomas Brown
Richmond Webb
La’Roi Glover
Neil Smith
Willie McGinest
Ruben Brown
Henry Ellard
London Fletcher
John Abraham
Randall Cunningham
Eric Metcalf
Matt Birk
Shaun Alexander
Mike Alstott
Wes Welker
Jamal Lewis
Tim McDonald
Other (please specify)
My 25 semi-finalist prediction (and its very hard to get all 25 correct, best is usually 20):
DE Jared Allen
RB Shaun Alexander
DB Ronde Barber
OT Tony Boselli
S LeRoy Butler
KR Devin Hester
WR Torry Holt
WR Andre Johnson
LB Sam Mills
C Nick Mangold
G Logan Mankins
DE Simeon Rice
DL Richard Seymour
WR Steve Smith
WR/ST Steve Tasker
RB Fred Taylor
LB Zach Thomas
WR Hines Ward
DE/LB Demarcus Ware
RB Ricky Watters
WR Reggie Wayne
LB Patrick Willis
DT Vince Wilfork
S Darren Woodson
DT Bryant Young
Paul, thanks for your input. I don’t see that many first-ballot names making the preliminary list though. For first-ballot names, I’d say it is likely going to be Ware, Mathis, and possibly Steve Smith, if they wish to keep the WR queue going (I think Hines Ward will break into the finalist realm for the first time this year). Hester could be a pleasant wild card, though it is very hard to tell how high the Hall will be on the greatest return specialist of all time in his first year of eligibiliyy. First time I am seeing Mangold’s name brought up as a semifinalist.
He may make it as a semifinalist one year…but considering only two centers have made the Hall in the last 22 years, Dermontti and Mawae…I don’t see Mangold as being an easy sell for a while.
Paul, I will also say this…if Mankins makes the preliminary list in his second year of eligibility, I’d say he will be a lock to be enshrined within 5-6 years, because him being a semifinalist in his 2nd year of eiligiblity would be a great sign, especially for an underrepresented position in Canton such as a guard.
Hoping Lewis, O Neil, Wisniewski, Walker, Ellard and Ware make semi list …
Will probably be Johnson, Ware, S Smith, Wilford and two others …
would you blame me john if i dont see mangold as a semifinalist
Wilfork, sorry …
Thats why I believe a preliminary list should be longer Bill. With these writers, etc trying to narrow it down to 120-122 names, there are oversights like Nalen, Romo or Light. I dont believe Romo is a HOF QB but he has a better case than Delhomme, Garcia or Krieg for sure …
Notable players that made the list for 2021 but not this year …
Bledsoe
Dunn … replaced by Brian Westbrook ?
Shockey
R White
Nalen … has to be an oversight ?
C Samuels
Mayo
Porter
Spielman
Talley
Hasty
How Bob Sanders and only 50 games played not counting postseason, keeps entering this list, I will never know …
Esiason made the list again after missing it in 2021.
Here are my 25
1. Tony Boselli
2. LeRoy Butler
3. Richard Seymour
4. Zach Thomas
5. Jared Allen
6. Torry Holt
7. Sam Mills
8. Reggie Wayne
9. Ronde Barber
10. DeMarcus Ware
11. Andre Johnson
12. Steve Smith
13. Patrick Willis
14. Cornelius Bennett
15. Steve Wisniewski
16. Willie Anderson
17. Shaun Alexander
18. Rodney Harrison
19. Albert Lewis
20. Steve Tasker
21. Devin Hester
22. Darren Woodson
23. Rickey Watters
24. La’Roi Glover
25. Vince Wilfork
Glad you asked about Kreig vs Romo Brian heres how they match up
Passing Yards
Dave Krieg 38147
Tony Romo 34813
Touchdowns
Dave Krieg 261
Tony Romo 248
Interceptions
Dave Krieg 199
Tony Romo 177
Both had good careers Robert, leading talented teams but couldnt do much in the playoffs. Krieg’s best playoff game was upsetting the Dolphins in Marino’s rookie year …
ohi agree 100% Brian about the playoffs part
Is La’Roi Glover up for the Hall this year? Isn’t he up for the first time next year?
Glover has been on initial lists but not made the semifinalist list that I know of but I could be wrong …
La’Roi Glover has been on ballot since 2014 but never made progress towards consideration for election
Is Bobby Wagner a HOFer? Heard Paul Allen say he was headed to the HOF on the VIkings/Seahawks broadcast yesterday…I know he’s a solid player, and has a good profile, but he’s never been a name I had really associated with HOF level (must be the mid-west media bias…LOL).
6x first team AP All pro-Wagner is a lock for PFHOF
Last of the Legion Of Boom …
I thought Wagner was better than Urlacher and as good as Willis and Kuechly …
Bobby Wagner is a sure-fire HOFamer
Legion of Boom will eventually have Wagner, Sherman and Earl Thomas in Canton.
Final year for Tasker and Mills. If Hester doesn’t advance to the semis this time he will in 2023. And with Mills dropping off, Matthews now a senior and Z.Thomas on the verge that’s good news for Patrick Willis who I expect to be in the Top 15 very soon.
Looking at the 2021 finalists at least 11 will be off the ballot by 2023. A WR is still possible for 2022 though it’s more likely to have one in 2023 with Holt or Wayne.
Boknows34 could willis make that leap in 2022
Leap to final 15 yea, leap to election in class of 2020-very doubtful
With at least six new names in the Top 15 finalists, I’d say Willis could certainly make that leap in 2022. Ware, Willis and Darren Woodson would get my vote for three of those spots.
i think you meant 2022 paul
yea
my “guess” at final 15:
DE Jared Allen
DB Ronde Barber
OT Tony Boselli
S LeRoy Butler
WR Torry Holt
WR Andre Johnson
LB Sam Mills
DL Richard Seymour
WR/ST Steve Tasker
RB Fred Taylor
LB Zach Thomas
DE/LB Demarcus Ware
WR Reggie Wayne
LB Patrick Willis
DT Bryant Young
Upon reflection I would replace Johnson with Steve Smith
Shady McCoy officially retires. HOFamer?
McCoy has very good numbers, similar to Tiki Barber but those numbers were quiet as well because he wasnt a big game performer in my opinion. He had big play potential but also could get nicked up alot and be in and out of the lineup. To me he epitomizes the modern player who has talent in abundance but is woefully inconsistent … Being on SB winning teams can help his cause for the HOF but his inactive status in those huge games also somewhat, symbolizes his plàying career.
A pass for me, despite good statistics and exciting plays …
Definitely a little late to the party on this one, but here’s my thoughts on the biggest snubs from the preliminary list:
QB: Drew Bledsoe, Rich Gannon
RB: Clinton Portis, Warrick Dunn
WR: Irving Fryar, Herman Moore, honorable mention to Anthony Miller who was in his last year of eligibility. Amazingly, he was 5-time Pro Bowler…he was a great deep threat in the early 90’s, but I never would have guessed that.
TE; Jeremy Shockey, Todd Heap
OL: Nate Newton, Tom Nalen, Mark Stepnoski, Bruce Armstrong
DL: Trevor Pryce, Ted Washington
LB: Joey Porter, Greg Lloyd, James Farrior (maybe Steelers fans need to be more vocal?)
DB: Carnell Lake, Darren Sharper
K: Jason Elam
P: Rohn Stark (Last year of eligibility)
It’s nice to see Andre Rison and Hardy Nickerson on the list this time around. They usually are omitted. I’d say the biggest snubs in my opinion would be Nalen and Newton. With so many linemen getting inducted lately and a lot of good candidates recently moving to the senior pool, I’d say that they both have the argument that they are among the top 5 linemen in the modern era pool.
Branch, Vermeil and McNally were all good choices for the other categories. None would have been my top pick, but all would have been toward the top. Interesting to see that another coach has jumped over Don Coryell.
A couple of other random thoughts:
1) I don’t understand the case for Steve Smith being a finalist right away. He made 4 Pro Bowls as a receiver (one was as a returner) and I don’t think he really was snubbed in any other year. I will say that in 2005 and 2008, he was perhaps the best receiver in the league, but he had a lot of seasons where he was just an above average receiver. I think his case is closer to Hines Ward’s with a better peak, but less postseason success, than to Holt, Wayne and even Andre Johnson.
2) I would honestly say that I don’t see a single lock in this class. I feel like Ware and Seymour and pretty good bets, but I could see them both falling short. As much as Zach Thomas and LeRoy Butler are deserving and have current momentum, it wasn’t long ago that they couldn’t even crack the top 25. Boselli meanwhile always seems on the cusp, but can’t seem to pass that 10 to 5 cutdown.
3) With this being a players only pool now for a couple of years, it’s becoming obvious to me that beyond the top 10 to 12 players or so, there’s not much consensus among voters on the next best players. I think we could see some surprises on the semifinalist list (fingers crossed for Ben Coates, Neil Smith and Richmond Webb), and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Watters or Wisniewski back on the list. I love that guys like Bennett, Allen and Watters have jumped into the top 25 in the last couple of years, but it may be too late for them to realistically make a run for the hall as modern candidates.
4) It would be a huge disappointment in my opinion if Patrick Willis wasn’t a finalist this year. He absolutely deserves to make the jump to that stage.
I think you would be hard-pressed to make the case that LeSean McCoy isn’t a hall of famer. I don’t think he goes in right away, but he was a 6-time Pro Bowler, on the 2010s all-decade team, arguably the best all-round back in the NFL in the 2010s, and well…I guess also a 2-time Super Bowl winner, lol. There just haven’t been a lot of RBs in the last 20 years that have had a consistent run of success, so despite the blemishes, he’s still a top back from the last decade.
Brian is correct though that he was pretty bad in the playoffs. He never won a playoff game while he was a starter, averaged less than 4 yards per carry in the playoffs, never rushed for more than 80 yards in a game and only had 1 TD. He also played a grand total of 3 snaps combined during the Chiefs and Bucs’ playoff runs, so to say he was a non-factor would be an understatement.
Great call on the preliminary list snubs, BSLO. I agree on most of the players you mentioned. Like alot of people on this and other sites have stated, Herman Moore was a beast of a receiver for Detroit before injuries took there toll.
to be fair bslo does it really matter in terms of postseason with ss
Robert, I’d say Steve Smith’s lack of a ring is probably not a huge factor in whether he’s worthy or not, but he’s going to naturally be compared against the other WRs in the pool, and since Holt, Wayne and Ward all have Super Bowl rings, it’s something that is perhaps unfairly going to be seen as a disadvantage.
I’ll be interested to see how voters compare him against Andre Johnson. His career regular season stats are very similar to Johnson’s, with Smith only having a clear advantage in TDs (81 vs. 70), but Johnson having the better peak (7 Pro Bowls, 4 years of 1400+ receiving yards, and 2 years apiece leading the league in receptions and receiving yards). Both guys were great in the playoffs, averaging around 90 receiving yards per game, though Smith’s is arguably more impressive given the larger sample size (11 games vs. Johnson’s 4). Neither guy played with an elite QB during their career, though Delhomme and Schaub had their moments. Neither guy made an all-decade team.
Overall, I think Smith is a firm 4th in the pecking order at WR. Just behind Johnson, just ahead of Ward. That should be good enough to be a semi-finalist, though reaching the finalist stage seems like a stretch to me.
Holt, Wayne, Ward, A.Johnson and S.Smith should all make it by the end of this decade. Holt/Wayne within the next 3-4 years.
After that we have Larry Fitz who will be first ballot in 2026 if he doesn’t play again. Julio Jones has another few years left.
Witten and Gates are also easy picks as pass catching TEs.
I don’t think we will see 6 WRs elected in next 8 elections (2022-2029) someone perhaps 2 will wait longer
Bslo i agree with you 100% on Boselli having a problem with making the cut from 10 to 5 my question to you bslo is who could you see passing boselli in the quere?
Boselli wil be elected in class of 2022 – mark it down right now (as will Butler)
The OL backlog was keeping Boselli out. That has now been cleared.
Early reminder that next step in class of 2022 selection process, the semifinal list of 25 modern candidates, should,be released by Hall (via NFL Network show) early in Thanksgiving Week.
what will the fate of sam mills be this year just curious
I agree with Paul and BoKnows34. Boselli is pretty likely to get in this year. Mawae, Faneca and Hutchinson were all candidates with more accolades and longer careers, so I wasn’t surprised to see them get in first. The only guy who I think compares closely to Boselli is Steve Wisniewski, but he isn’t even a perennial semifinalist at this point.
As much as I think Willie Anderson was underrated throughout his career, I can’t see him jumping over Boselli in the OL queue.
I think Sam Mills falls short this year, especially with a better candidate at the same position (Thomas) looking likely to get in. For me, he is a borderline HOFer, so I am fine with him heading to the senior pool.
With Thomas and Ware likely finalists I simply don’t see a path to election this year for another LB in Mills
Like everyone says, Mills has a tough road with Ware, Thomas and Willis at LB. If Ware doesnt get in first ballot, I believe Thomas or Ronde Barber could get the spot.
I get the feeling with major players coming up for election, the wide receivers might not get elected for awhile despite a possible backlog.
At least Steve Smith had Flacco for a while, A Johnson really had no star QB …
I see 2023-2025 as weaker in terms of 1st ballot candidates (perhaps 1-2 each year), if class of 2022 can include players who have been finalists in recent years (Boselli, Butler, Thomas, Seymour) it could certainly clear the slate for Wayne, Holt and other WRs to start to move ahead in process in future elections, until Fitz hits ballot in 2026 (if he stays retired)
And I think Boselli, Butler, Thomas and Seymour all get elected, last spot goes to Ware or Wayne/Holt. Despite how some voters like to complain about too many first ballot, apparently more are not concerned about it as they elected three in 2021 including Calvin Johnson. And if this committee elected Jason Taylor as first ballot (right or wrong , point is they did) there is no reason to not elect Ware which I still think happens.
I haven’t chimed in sometime. My prediction for Semi-Finalists:
1. Reggie Wayne
2, Torry Holt
3.Andre Johnson
4.Steve Smith
5. Tony Boselli
6.Jared Allen
7.Richard Seymour
8. Sam Mills
9.Zach Thomas
10.LeRoy Butler
11. Ronde Barber
12. DeMarcus Ware
13.KEvin Williams
14.Nick Mangold
15. Leslie O’Neal
16. Devin Hester
17. Steve Tasker
18. Steve Wisniewski
19. Logan Mankins
20. Patrick Willis
21. Shaun Alexander
22. Anquan Boldin
23. Hines Ward
24. Albert Lewis
25. John Abraham
The others who could get in the mix: Donovan McNabb, Fred Taylor, Ricky Watters, Herschel Walker, Tiki Barber, Priest Holmes, Simeon Rice, Ben Coates, Lomas Brown, Richmond Webb, La’Roi Glover, Cornelius Bennett, Eric Allen, Asante Samuel, and Darren Woodson. As more get inducted and more lose eligibility, we will see new names appear as Semi-Finalists . It seems pretty obvious, but it is making me feel old writing most names I grew up watching. Used to be most of the names were players I heard about.
I think Brian is correct on the logjam at wr and no wr’s getting elected for a while another question is who moves up in the o line pecking order when boselli gets in?
Well Joe Thomas gets elected in class of 2023, after that perhaps Willie Anderson or Richard Webb. At Guard its may be Logan Mankins but he is going to have a long wait, perhaps several years, and could be pushed back once Jahri Evans (2023) and Marshal Yanda (2025) joins ballot. May be years before a OG is elected. Suspect OL will be a position underrepresented in next several elections.
With past criticism of the election of Jason Taylor first ballot and some people surprised Calvin Johnson got in his first year as well, we will see if these two elections will affect Ware’s chances as well … Probably not but it wouldnt surprise me to see Ware and Jared Allen go in together in 2023. Especially if voters wanted to put in Seymour, Barber, Wayne or Holt …
I really don’t see a push for Barber, Wayne or Holt, and doubt we would see two pass rushers in 2023. As to the criticism of too many first ballot elections, it seems to come up on occasion and highlighted by a few voters and other members of the media, but sure seems as if its not a concern of majority of 49 voters who keep electing them. In fact it would rare not to see a single first ballot elected in class of 2022 so seems Ware still has a very good chance of election. Seymour plus Boselli, Butler, Thomas can all be elected-all of whom who have been on cusp of election last few years (and would be very deserving class) even if Ware is also elected.
I think the push back would be electing 3 first ballot out of five modern slots – there are not that many deserving in next 3-4 elections so issue will disappear
here is how I view upcoming first ballot (this does not include all eligible just those with reasonable chances at 1st ballot election- and they not all get in 1st ballot, Revis??)
2022: DE/LBDemarcus Ware(DAL/DEN)
2023: OT Joe Thomas(CLE)*, DE Dwight Freeney (IND), * CB Darrelle Revis (NYJ),
2024: DE Julius Peppers(CAR)*, TE Antonio Gates (SD)*
2025: LB Luke Kuechly (CAR)*
So plenty of room to get others who will be repeat finalists elected, including working through backlog of WRs and pass rushers
PFHOF President and CEO David Baker has announced his retirement. Will stay on as Past President to complete game visits this season to present class of 2020 and class 2021 their rings.
Jim Porter, 57, the Hall of Fame’s Chief Marketing and Communications Officer since April 2020, has been named President of the Pro Football Hall of Fame and will oversee all daily business operations.
https://www.profootballhof.com/david-baker-announces-retirement-as-president-executive-director-of-hall-of-fame/
Here is hoping that Jim Porter and the PFHOF can try to get back to implementing the two-seniors per year voting process without waiting until 2025.
Pro Football Journal speculated that possibly nine candidates could be considered by voters for possible election per year in the future but that could be stretching it because with a coach and contributor every year, it won’t be too long before those categories become exhausted. I still feel they should alternate every year but with diverse contributors and deserving career assistant coaches, it will be interesting for the future, without owners or outside influences making rash changes/implementations.
I would be really surprised if we see 9 a year anytime soon as many voters and those with Hall (Board and staff, not Baker) feel too many are getting in and will resist adding more slots beyond the current 8
And same Hall Board as current one set 1 senior for 2021-24 so I doubt very much they are in hurry to revisit until four year period ends before class of 2025
you might find this podcast interesting listen with two PFHOF voters talking to new PFHOF President Jim Porter
https://www.spreaker.com/user/fullpresscoverage/eyetest-ep78
Seems like Porter wants to meet with the voters to get input from them about the election process and is at least receptive to idea of expanding seniors back to 2 per year. When and if that change may be made is uncertain but its a good step to have that discussion with voters and collect their feedback-indicates interest in improving the process and 2 seniors is one many voters are advocating for.
JJ Watt having season ending surgery. Will he retire, come back as a situational player, be released by the Cardinals ?
He will make the HOF but will it still be first ballot ? Oh,what his numbers might of been.
3xDPOY, 2 seasons 20+ sacks, 5x first time all pro, 11 seasons (yes I know only 7 full seasons) and Unanimous NFL 2010s All-Decade Team- yep he’s first ballot.
Does he come back? hard to say, depends on recovery from injury and whether Cardinals are interested in risk on large salary or even pay for situational player, and does he want to come back? only time will tell but would bet chances are 50/50.
Clearly at the end of PFHOF career, if not 2021 then certainly very soon
Looks like Derrick Henry season comes to end (or at least he is out several games), so much for the attempt at 3 time consecutive league rushing title. But if he can recover (always an uncertainty with RB injuries, including in this case with the foot) he is still well situated for PFHOF if he finishes out career with few more productive seasons in future, as with the 2000 yard season, 2x league rushing titles he has strong resume.
His absence will open door for new season rushing champion, including chances for first timers Taylor, Cubb or Mixon, and even 2x NFL season rushing leader Zeke Elliot, as all four are within 79 yards of each other currently. Unless one has a huge game in rest of season and takes big lead, it could be close race to end of season for league rushing title.
Strange day for future HOFamers D. Henry and V. Miller. One goes on IR and the other is traded for 2nd day picks.
Henry’s injury could also open the door to Adrian Peterson returning to the NFL as the he’s scheduled for a workout with the Titans. That would also relieve some of the 2026 first-time eligible list which is looking very crowded.
Such a shame as Henry was on track for consecutive 2k seasons. He’s certainly a name to watch for the HOF with the way his career is progressing..
Also hearing Von Miller is being traded to the Rams. Miller has very likely already crossed the finishing line for Canton but a late career ring would be the icing on the cake like it did for DeMarcus Ware when he was traded to Denver.
Chubb or Cook could battle it out for the rushing crown with Taylor in the mix but glad Peterson is getting another chance in the NFL.
Have to admire the Rams for going all-in on a chance to go to the SB but with Miller on the defensive left side, can Floyd adjust to moving to the right ? Still, with those three great pass rushers, the Rams can be creative but they better continue to run the ball, the farther their season goes.
The continous mounting of injuries and decline of the Chiefs are still the biggest stories of the year, though the Chiefs could turn it around. Can Arizona, Dallas, Cincinatti(!) Las Vegas, continue strong seasons into the playoffs ?
Hope you guys see the HOVG Class Of 2021 on the PFRA site …
Tony Latone and Clark Shaughnessy made it.
Congratulations Class Of 2021!
HOVG does not really interest me, just extending a long list of players who are a tier below PFHOF-just my opinion.
Better focus would be on top seniors not elected to PFHOF yet very deserving, some initial players on HOVG were at that level but at this point HOVG is just a long list of players with a few pro bowls to their name that expands every year HO HUM.
I understand Paul but I still think the HOVG is another good example of keeping the memory of these great players alive. Any promotion or honoring of forgotten, ignored or underrated players is okay with me.
You should be happy TonyP …
Stanfill was elected to the HOVG, though I still feel other defensive ends were more deserving but championships come with perks …
Four offensive linemen got due recognition as well and hopefully the senior commitees-voters for the HOF will take notice.
Adrian Peterson didnt do much in his debut with the Titans but still scored an important TD to help them win. Hopefully he will get better each week as he will be first ballot elected I believe in 2027 …
Yep assuming 2021 season is his last AP would currently top class of 2027 first ballot (unless Brady or Ben R call it quits after this season)
If PFHOF sticks with its usual schedule, the class of 2022 semi-finalists (25) should be announced two weeks from today on Tues Nov 23rd.
New PFHOF President held zoom call with group of voters today and almost entire discussion was on voters pressing on increasing senior slots – an idea Porter promised he would raise at Hall Board meeting next month. Also welcomed future conversations with voters about ideas to improve Hall and elections (as reported by Clark Judge on Talk of Fame)
RIP Sam Huff- One of the most intimidating and athletic Linebackers of his day!
class of 2022 modern semifinalists (25) will be announced on NFL Network on Weds Nov.24 at 1p EST
And class of 2022 will be publicly announced live during NFL Honors show (on ABC) Thursday Feb 10th 9-11pm (15 modern finalists announced in early January and voters meeting virtually a few weeks later to discuss and elect class of 2022)
Ravens cut L. Bell. He was never the same after his hold out with the Steelers. My guess is that he is finished in the NFL
yep poster boy for why you can’t judge a players career too early for PFHOF.
who would the biggest semi finalist surprise on wed
not sure this counts as a surprise but I am interested to see if both Hester and Tasker end up in the semi-finalist list (two non-kicking ST players), any surprise would be a player who likely does not advance to the final 14 anyways, always several players who are on semi-finalist bubble but only a few make it but they don’t get further in process
i thnk you mean the final 15 paul
Hester wont be a surprise but I will be disappointed if he makes it over other players. I thought he was a great returner but didnt do enough as a starter on offense to warrant a HOF bust yet he seems to be the perfect example of the HOF finally deciding on a possible worthy returner to go in along with a punter and kickers, though personally, I would put in Tasker as a gunner/wedge player first.
People have asked me why Tasker over Hester and I tell them that had Tasker had the opportunity to be a receiver like Hester did, he would have had a better receiving career. Levy wanted him strictly for special teams but I feel Tasker could have had a career similar, though not as prolific as Wes Welker, who has his own case.
ok brian let me pose this thought could it be possible that hester snd tasker cancel each other out
I think Hester will cancel out Tasker Robert because Tasker is simply running out of time and if they havent voted him in by now they probably wont. Hester will get a lot of support from younger voters but who knows ?
If the Patriots make the playoffs, Mac Jones will get ROTY over Chase I believe.
The Chiefs are getting stronger while the Raiders stay the same. Can Carr drive the Raiders into a playoff spot ? Can the Bengals or Steelers make the playoffs ?
Will Julian Edelman try to join the Bucs come playoff time or are his knees done ?
Will the Lions get their first win over the Bears ? A Nagy-in time for Chicago fans …
I’ll throw out 3 guys who I think might be surprises on the semi-finalist list:
Donovan McNabb
Ben Coates
Neil Smith
I think it’s more likely though that we’ll see a couple of former semi-finalists rejoin the list (e.g. Ricky Watters, Steve Wisniewski, Leslie O’Neal, Simeon Rice) or Logan Mankins / Kevin Williams, who were kind of surprising omissions last year in their first year of eligibility.
My boldest prediction though: Steve Smith does not make the semifinalist round.
BSLO…I’ve been thinking about your last two projections a great deal…
I think it is quite likely that we will see some former semifinalists join the list…
I have heard Mankins’ name come up quite a bit.
Would LOVE to see Kevin Williams’ name make the list, though I think that will be more likely in a future year.
And while I predicted originally on Twitter Steve Smith’s name to be the most surprising name TO make the semi list, I am less sure that will happen. I think the Hall will likely be tougher on these inflated stats-era WRs who have no rings. Ditto for Andre Johnson. Not saying those two will NEVER make the preliminary list. But I see it a tougher road than Holt, Wayne, and Ward have had making the semis list, since Steve Smith and Andre Johnson have no rings.
Semifinalists released today: from official announcement
Eric Allen, CB – 1988-1994 Philadelphia Eagles, 1995-97 New Orleans Saints, 1998-2001 Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2021-22)
Jared Allen, DE – 2004-07 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-15 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2021-22)
Willie Anderson, T – 1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2021-22)
Ronde Barber, CB-S – 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2018-2022)
Anquan Boldin, WR – 2003-09 Arizona Cardinals, 2010-12 Baltimore Ravens, 2013-15 San Francisco 49ers, 2016 Detroit Lions | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Tony Boselli, T – 1995-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2002 Houston Texans (injured reserve) | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2016-2022)
LeRoy Butler, S – 1990-2001 Green Bay Packers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2018-2022)
Eddie George, RB – 1996-2003 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers-Titans, 2004 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Devin Hester, PR-KR-WR – 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-15 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Torry Holt, WR – 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars |(Times as a Semifinalist: 8 – 2015-2022)
Andre Johnson, WR – 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016, Tennessee Titans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Robert Mathis, DE-LB – 2003-2016 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Sam Mills, LB – 1986-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-97 Carolina Panthers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2016, 2019-2022)
Richard Seymour, DE-DT – 2001-08 New England Patriots, 2009-2012 Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2018-2022)
Steve Smith, WR – 2001-2013 Carolina Panthers, 2014-16 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Steve Tasker, ST-WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills |(Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2004, 2008-2010, 2012-13, 2020-22)
Fred Taylor, RB – 1998-2008 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2009-2010 New England Patriots | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020-22)
Zach Thomas, LB – 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys |(Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2019-2022)
Hines Ward, WR – 1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2017-2022)
DeMarcus Ware, LB-DE – 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-16 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Ricky Watters, RB – 1992-94 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-97 Philadelphia Eagles, 1998-2001 Seattle Seahawks | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2020, 2022)
Reggie Wayne, WR – 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020-22)
Vince Wilfork, DT – 2004-2014 New England Patriots, 2015-16 Houston Texans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Patrick Willis, LB – 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020-22)
Darren Woodson, S – 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2015, 2017, 2019-2022)
Bryant Young, DT – 1994-2007 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020-22)
Boy…and I thought Paul was crazy when he listed all those first year eligible names as semifinalists…I thought there was no chance of that in a ckean-up year. Looks like he proved me, and probably some others, wrong…Congrats, Paul!
So Tasker and Hester make it …
Eddie George makes the list for the first time, joining backs Watters and Taylor …
Rodney Harrison, Wisniewski, O ‘Neil, Mankins, Kevin Williams Albert Lewis, Hershel Walker, Shaun Alexander, Ellard and Tiki Barber fail to advance.
Wilfork joins Seymour and Young at DT/NT with Allen and Mathis at DE
Only Boselli and Anderson as Offensive Linemen …
Lots of receivers, as usual …
Sam Mills make it his final year of eligibility but alot of linebackers.
Other disappointments … No Asante Samuel, Neil Smith, Simeon Rice, Nick Mangold, Hardy Nickerson, Corey Dillon, Priest Holmes, Erik Williams and Eric Metcalf, who I would have picked over Hester …
I still think Henry Ellard is better than all the eligible receivers. He still played at a time when receivers could get blown up by defensive safeties and linebackers.
I like Wilfork but over Kevin Williams ?
Rodney Harrison and Cornelieus Bennett failed to make semifinalist list from last year.
Wisniewski should have made it along with Anderson and Boselli …
Wont make the Final 15
George … though I like him
Eric Allen … Barber is next in line
Boldin … tough group to crack
Ward … great player but not flashy
Taylor … a congested group at RB
Watters … same as above
Mathis … playmaker but behind Allen
Tasker … could be cancelled by Hester
Hester … has to wait
Wilfork … tough for nose tackles
Class Of 2022 HOF
Boselli
Butler
Seymour
Thomas
Barber (upset)
Ware gets in next year with Jared Allen
Morning today changed my prediction made back in February- Boselli Butler Thomas Seymour Ware
Nothing today…
I’m really shocked to see Boldin, Mathis and Wilfork on this list…I’m also not huge on Hester or Smith, but they were guys that I figured had a chance to make the list…so many 1st-time eligible players, and many of them are really borderline in my opinion.
I’m happy to see Watters and Allen make it again, but I’m disappointed to see Bennett fall short, and Wisniewski miss the cut again. I think it’s becoming quite obvious that beyond the top 15 or so candidates, it really it is a crapshoot for those last spots…not a lot of of year to year consistency among the voters.
I’m rarely am disappointed by the semifinalist announcement, but I feel like the voters really missed the mark on this one.
i disagree with you being dissapointed bslo and who do you think are borderline mr.bslo
I am not surprised with Mathis because he had high sack production and forced alot of fumbles but Wilfork and Boldin did surprise.
Happy that Eric Allen, Eddie George and Ricky Watters get chances but cant believe another offensive lineman didnt get considered ?
A logjam at receiver but think it might be a few more classes before any get voted in but who knows ?
Can Tasker beat out Hester and make the HOF first ?
Challenge is 49 voters each voting for 25 candidates will get some odd inclusions and exclusions in 3-5 slots (and resulting changes year to year). Personally I don’t think any of those 3-5 in and those out, really were strong contenders for finalist this year
i agree with you 100% as usual Paul
Happy thanksgiving all
So I finally checked my semi finalist prediction and went 21/25 – missed with Alexander, Mangold, Mankins and Rice (did not have Eric Allen, Anderson, George, Boldin, Mathis) . admittedly Anderson, Boldin and Mathis were bad misses on my part as I tried to squeeze in Mangold and Mankins so interior OL were represented – voters really don’t favor guards
My final 15
Jared Allen, DE – 2004-07 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-15 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2021-22
Ronde Barber, CB-S – 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2018-2022)
Tony Boselli, T – 1995-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2002 Houston Texans (injured reserve) | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2016-2022)
LeRoy Butler, S – 1990-2001 Green Bay Packers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2018-2022)
Devin Hester, PR-KR-WR – 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-15 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Torry Holt, WR – 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars |(Times as a Semifinalist: 8 – 2015-2022)
Andre Johnson, WR – 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016, Tennessee Titans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Sam Mills, LB – 1986-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-97 Carolina Panthers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2016, 2019-2022)
Richard Seymour, DE-DT – 2001-08 New England Patriots, 2009-2012 Oakland Raiders | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2018-2022)
Steve Tasker, ST-WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills |(Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2004, 2008-2010, 2012-13, 2020-22)
Zach Thomas, LB – 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys |(Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2019-2022)
Hines Ward, WR – 1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2017-2022)
DeMarcus Ware, LB-DE – 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-16 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2022)
Reggie Wayne, WR – 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020-22)
Patrick Willis, LB – 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2020-22)
RIP Curley Culp…one of the best NT’s ever
RIP Curley Culp
Deserving of the HOF
yes he is (and he’s already in PFHOF)
my final 15 prediction (and usually get 12-13 right….)
DE Jared Allen
DB Ronde Barber
OT Tony Boselli
S LeRoy Butler
WR Torry Holt
LB Sam Mills
DL Richard Seymour
WR Steve Smith
WR/ST Steve Tasker
RB Fred Taylor
LB Zach Thomas
DE/LB Demarcus Ware
WR Reggie Wayne
LB Patrick Willis
DT Bryant Young
Frankly just as likely its Johnson instead of Smith, maybe Hester instead of Tasker (thinking that voters may want to get multiple time semi-finalist Tasker in the room for visit time to discuss as this is his last year as modern candidate, Hester debate can wait for next year). Feel pretty good about the other 13 on list.
Haha … I know Culp is in the HOF
Some of you guys didnt think he was deserving but I knew he was, now its time another nose tackle made it like Smerlas, Washington, Thomas or Baumhower, though
Krumrie made alot of tackles as well and has a case … Wilfork may be the next one but we shall see …
Getting congested with pass rushers with Ware, Allen, Mathis making the semis with Rice, Abraham, Smith and O’Neil missing out and Freeney, Peppers and Suggs coming soon as well …
I think over the next several elections we will see Ware, Allen, Freeney, Peppers and Suggs all eventually elected. I have serious doubts that the others you list will get strong consideration because by then Watt and Miller could be on the modern ballot.
All of the pass rushers have interesting cases because some, like Ware and Peppers had the accolades and championships but others, like Rice and Mathis, were effective with fewer games than Suggs or Freeney but in Freeney’s case, he got more attention from opposing coaches and double-teams, while Suggs was outstanding on tackles for loss while having seven interceptions as a pass rusher. Allen and O’Neil were above average against the run, especially O’Neil but Neil Smith is caught in a numbers game … lots of sacks, including postseason with championships but neglected by voters.
Just to be clear Brian which thomas are you talking about
At end of the day all the pass rushers will be looked at in terms of career sacks, first team all pro, and all decade (and yes having SB does help). There really is no other way for voters to sort them out.
Not sure what youre asking Robert. I do think Zach Thomas will get elected but maybe not.
Ware, Ronde Barber or Jared Allen could take his spot or any receiver. Looking at what, two or three finalist spots however, I consider him part of the queue … Did you mean the Barbers, because Tiki didnt make it to semis ?
I think past history and voting trends can serve us well when attempting to predict players to be elected. Thomas, Seymour, Butler and Bosseli were all in final 10 during election of class of 2021 (Seymour and Bosselli have made that stage in process multiple times). Barber and Allen did not advance from final 15 into the final 10 for class of 2021, so I don’t see how or why voters would decide to jump them over the aforementioned four who made it further in just the last election. That is why I am predicting Thomas, Seymour, Butler and Bosseli in class of 2022. Now, very possible Allen, Barber, Holt or Wayne could be in mix for the fifth and final slot, along with first ballot DeMarcus Ware. But it has been ten years since voters did not elect a single first ballot (2012) and I am betting that trend continues with election of Ware.
did you mean zach thomas brian
I think that Robert was asking about the nose tackle with the last name Thomas. Was it Henry Thomas?
When you asked about the next Viking player to the HOF Robert, I mentioned Henry Thomas though he wont get in due to light accolades. Though I would like to see Matt Blair make it, it will probably be Kevin Williams … I think Zach Thomas for Miami will get in this year …
Claude Humprey RIP…..3rd PFHOFer to pass away in last month, 5th in 2021 which follows 9 in 2020-brutal..
We getting a new thread once finalists are named, Paul, Tony and Andy ?
We thinking of one, wasn’t sure of best timing but let me check with Tony and Andy as happy to create it
Yeah, we should be able to get something posted.
Sorry Tony … forgot about Tony (Anthony)
today (Dec 13th) is deadline for voters to submit their ballots for 15 finalists-results to be announced on NFL network first week in January
Oldest living PFHOFer turns 100 today-anyone know who it is (without looking it up……)
Calvin Johnson? Oh wait, you said OLDEST…then no, I have no idea without looking.
On a side note, I’m surprised that no one has posted about these 4 new committees that were created recently:
https://www.cantonrep.com/story/sports/pro/pro-football-hof/2021/12/03/pro-football-hall-fame-awards-excellence-nfl-trainers-assistant-coaches-tony-dungy-bill-cowher/8840099002/
For those who don’t want to read the full article, here’s an excerpt of the most pertinent details:
“The Hall — expanding on its mission to honor individuals who affect pro football in a positive manner — will recognize outstanding contributions from members of four groups vital to the game’s success on the field and behind the scenes.
Individuals who have spent their football careers as assistant coaches, athletic trainers, equipment managers and public relations personnel will receive Awards of Excellence from their respective groups. Those names will be placed on display inside a designated area of the Hall of Fame Museum starting in 2022.”
Assistant coaches, athletic trainers and equipment managers…I 100% am on board with. Public Relations personnel…umm, sure I guess? Either way, individuals in these 4 groups would be unlikely to gain significant traction in the contributor vote against owners, GMs, scouts and commissioners, so I’m glad they are being given a reasonable chance for glory even if they only get something called an “Award of Excellence” in a separate wing of the Hall.
I’m going to call this a positive change. Next up, let’s go back to 2 senior nominees!!
Yea I meant to post about the new awards (great idea) just got forgotten. They won’t be enshrined as PFHOFers but like Rozelle award (tv) and Nunn/aka McCann award (media) they will be recognized by the Hall
Many my not agree but for senior /coach/ builder . I would pick people who are still living first.Cliff branch/ken riley are hall of famers. I would vote any of craig,anderson,grandshair so they can experience the honor they deserve.
I think boselli, ware, one of the receivers ,two of butler , seymour ,thomas are in 2022 class
I would vote ware, butler ,anderson , seymour , hester if I had a vote
Class of 2022 finalists December 30th at 5p on NFL network
Over Under on first time finalists paul?
1 would say 3
RIP John Madden
Was raised on watching his games for CBS and Fox with Pat Summerrall.
Had three of his football books but only played his iconic game sparingly …
Though I was a fan of the Cowboys, his Raider teams of the 70s is what I believe NFL football is all about … A true ambassador of the game.
John Madden…..4th PFHOFer to pass away in last two months, 6th in 2021 which follows 9 in 2020-brutal..
Reminder that announcement of class of 2022 finalists is tonight at 5p on NFL Network
Personally got 12/15 missed on Hester, Anderson and Johnson – but have no real issue or surprise with official finalist list
2022 finalists: Allen Anderson barber Boselli butler Hester holt Johnson Willis Seymour Thomas ware Willis Wayne young
Still sticking with my prediction from February:
Boselli butler Thomas Seymour Ware
Andre Johnson now firmly established as that 3rd WR ahead of Ward, Smith and Boldin.
Devin Hester being named a finalist his first year of eligibility firmly puts him on the road to Canton. Steve Tasker now falls into the Seniors.
Patrick Willis, Bryant Young and Willie Anderson jump into the Top 15. All three willwait their turn behind Thomas, Seymour and Boselli.
Good call guys …
Just a matter of time for Hester Anderson and maybe Johnson, though I still think wideouts may wait for election …
Anderson and hopefully Wisniewski or Nalen should be the next lineman before or after Joe Thomas but we will see …
The full slate of Modern-Era Player candidates will be considered when the Hall of Fame’s Selection Committee meets virtually Jan. 18, 2022. And announced on NFL Honors show, moved back a few days before SB – Thursday Feb 10th.
I feel for Tasker but knew Hester might cancel him out … is Mills in ?
Yes Brian Mills is a Finalist
Thanks Robert … I predicted 13/15 on Pro Football Journal
Clark Judge implied on talkoffame that Zach Thomas may not have enough support to get electrd. Could open the door for Mills, Willis, Barber or maybe a receiver like Holt ?
My predictions
Butler
Boselli
Thomas
Seymour
R Barber … Though Ware might still get it
I’ll be shocked if a wide receiver is not elected there is are 3 of 1 position on the ballot which usually gets one in, and a few more on the brink of nomination Boldin, Steve Smith, and possibly Ward
Since 10 the hall has elected a Yards from the line of scrimmage (RB, WR, TE) player every year as one of the 5 modern candidates
10 Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith
11 Marshall Faulk, Shannon Sharpe
12 Curtis Martin
13 Chris Carter
14 Andre Reed
15 Tim Brown. Jerome Bettis
16 Marvin Harrison
17 Ladainian Tomlinson. Terrell Davis
18 Terrell Owens, Randy Moss
19 Tony Gonzalez
20 Edgerrin James, Isaac Bruce
21 Calvin Johnson
I don’t see this changing anytime soon
My predictions
Holt (has been a semi finalist the longest among WR, but can see any of them getting this pick)
Boselli (out lasted his previous competition and has been on the ballot the longest making the final 10 each year)
Ware (have to go back to 12 to get no first years, and the love for first years is not getting smaller)
Thomas
Seymour (after decades of ignoring defensive backs the hall has elected 7 modern era defensive backs and no other defensive players. It looks like non defensive back defensive players are due and Thomas and Seymour made the top 10 in 20 and 21. I would say they are due)
Butler is getting in, if WR replaces someone it’s likely Thomas
Tony help me out … why cant I get this site off GoDuckGo search ?
@Brian – What are you searching for on GoDuckGo? It appears to be indexed by them–unless somehow we’re flagged as a higher level on safe site search (can’t believe that would be the case). I’ll look into it more, though–that’s actually part of my day job…
Thanks Tony … got a new phone and hoping to use GoDuckGo as my search engine but it wouldnt “suggest” or send me to this site even when I started the search with https://www.zoneblitz.com …
I could easily go to google but would rather stay away from the DeathStar … haha
This would be my list. Jared Allen, Zach Thomas, DeMarcus Ware, Ronde Barber and Andre Johnson.
Wow TonyP another first ballot Johnson ? magine if he had Favre or Big Ben throwing to him, instead of pedestrian QBs …
My list is:
1. Tony Boselli
2. LeRoy Butler
3. DeMarcus Ware
4. Zach Thomas
5. Richard Seymour
I forgot I’m TonyP not Tony P. Haha. Very true Brian!! You’re trying to get me going Brian now. LOL You know how I feel about Calvin Johnson . hehehe
And AJ wasn’t a diva like many WR’s. Though it does seems like the diva WR may be mostly a thing of the past. Great WR aren’t as rare these days as the game has evolved. Maybe we’ve heard the last of Antonio Brown? I don’t know what his deal is. Great, great player just like Terrell Owens.
You know I love Tyreek Hill. :) I can’t imagine him not being a HOFer as 6/3 in his his first 6 years. The human joystick like another Chief. :)
And Travis Kelce is on his way. I think he might be on his way out of KC too. lol I don’t contract situation though. Have you seen has backup? I can’t tell the difference. lol
Can you tell I’m on the KC bandwagon? Hey I’m a Texans fan so not much to root for. lol Go heartland!! :)
Back to topic. Johnson reminds me of Tim Brown with mostly mediocre QB play except AJwas way more physical and better IMO. He’s deserving of a 1st ballot HOFer but if I’m honest I don’t think he’ll make it. His TD’s and 7/2 profile will hold him back but I don’t think that’s right. The Texans had some really good running backs at the goal line when they had better teams. They tried to run a more balanced offenses with Capers and Kubiak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=185TJqsVrRo
So if you go by number of All Pro selections to decide which WR deserves 1st Ballot HOF it would be Owens with 6/5 no , Moss 4, Harrison 8/3, Calvin Johnson 6/3, Warfield 8/2, Andre Johnson 7/2?, Chad Johnson 6/2 no, Larry Fitzgerald 11/1? I’m not a supporter of a Fitzgerald 1st Ballot but it doesn’t really matter once “the purity” of it all is broken. Haha Of course I’m saying a little tongue in cheek because I don’t presume to be and expert. I just play one some times. :)
Does Isaac Bruce show there’s hope for Anquan Boldin? I know some people are fans of him.
I like Boldin but feel Ward is better. I felt Johnson was more talented than productive but he had to have gotten frustrated with his QB (Carr) being a magnet for pass rushers. He will probably get in being a representative of the Texans but when ?
Tua Tags in Miami has a tough road being a successful lefty QB but he showed a lot of moxie bringing the Dolphins season to respectability with everyone clamoring for Massages Watson. Would the team still try for Watson or even Russell Wilson ?
Is the team sold on Tua ?
Derrick Henry will be back soon for the Titans, especially if they get the #1 seed … To be honest, he could still make All-Pro along with Taylor in Indy. Other than Chubb in Cleveland, who was more valuable for their team ?
At least postseason is finally here … every year I like the NFL less and less but always believe the postseason, is what keeps me interested.
Chase should be the OROY but it will probably go to Mac Jones if he beats the Dolphins. Parsons for Dallas is my ROY and DPOY … he is the difference maker for Dallas, though Watt will set the record for sacks in only 15 games played.
Y’all can read this article of the best WR’s not in the HOF. I’m not sure why the Author has 3 AP for Mark Clayton and 2 for Duper.? Maybe not the best on his facts but it is a decent list but for one big omission of Drew Pearson. You can tell the poll voters were younger. :
Best Receivers Not In HOF
Billy Howton
Jim Benton
Sterling Sharpe
Henry Ellard
Del Shofner
Otis Taylor
Pete Retzlaff
Gary Clark
Wes Chandler
Harold Jackson
My list of best receivers not in HOF
Cliff Branch
Harold Jackson
Sterling Sharpe
Billy Wilson
Billy Howton
Del Shofner
Stanley Morgan
Otis Taylor
Gary Clark
Boyd Dowler
I count Retzlaff as a TE but I do think he could be on the this list as well
Good list Bill …
Branch will get in. I like Morgan and Wilson as well, along with Walker, Dale, Powell and Hugh Taylor but they’re just below my Top Ten …
Duper, Clayton and Moore were excellent with Miami but hard to separate while Roy Green and Mike Quick were stopped by injuries along with Harlon Hill. Rison is also underrated, along with Herman Moore and Derrick Mason.
I agree about Ward. He shouldn’t have to wait too much longer but who knows. I never thought Zach Thomas would wait so long. He and Jason Taylor were household names for years. Pretty even I thought.
I’d stick with Tua with one more year though I worry he’s a little fragile. There D has been good the last half of the season. It helps to have a little offense.
I agree with with picks for awards. Tough call if Henry missed too many games. He’s the pick otherwise.
I don’t know about MVP. Taylor had the best shot of the RB’s but probably needed to get to 2,000 yds. I suspect it will be Aaron Rodgers. He’s been a magician this year. So fun to watch. I’m kind of rooting for him to finish his career with a SB win and I’ve never been a Packers fan. Sometimes older teams you don’t necessarily like and players grow on you. LOL . That happened with Manning and the Broncos.
Bill, I guess you aren’t counting modern day players? Bill, are you saying those players belong in the HOF? I don’t support know Stanley Morgan or Wilson. . I would support Shofner if Sharpe gets in and vise versa. I’m looking at Howton differently.
Should be in HOF
Cliff Branch
Harold Jackson
Otis Taylor
Gary Clark
Billy Howton
Happy New Year and reminders about changes to the timeline for class of 2022 elections- full committee meets virtually on Jan 18 to vote on senior, coach and contributor plus discuss 15 modern finalists and can elect max of 5. Results will not be announced until NFL Honors Show on Thursday Feb 10 (so for first time in SB era there will not be PFHOF Election on Selection Saturday the day before SB)
Yes- I was only looking at seniors
Modern Gus that should get in over the next 3 or 4 years include Wayne, Holt, A. Johnson and probably Ward, but I believe he will be 4th. I would put Henry Ellard and Steve Smith in over Boldin but all may end up in Senior Abyss
It’s easy to dislike a whole lot of things about today’s NFL game from politics to rules but the bottom line is they consistently put out a darn entertaining product. Yesterday was a good example. :)
Anyone have a Super Bowl Prediction? I’m going with Green Bay and Buffalo
Larry Fitz will be first ballot WR in class of 2026, that leaves 2022-25 to squeeze in a few WRs: Wayne, Holt and Johnson-at most – and I am not even sure of those as plenty of candidates from other positions deserving on ballot or joining through 2025. Includes the 15 strong candidates on class of 2022 ballot, plus (*possible 1st ballot):
2023: OT Joe Thomas(CLE)*, DE Dwight Freeney (IND), * CB Darrelle Revis (NYJ), DL James Harrison(PIT), OG Jahri Evans (NO)
2024: DE Julius Peppers(CAR)*, TE Antonio Gates (SD)*
2025: LB Luke Kuechly (CAR)*, RB Marshawn Lynch (SEA), QB Eli Manning (NYG), OG Marshal Yanda (BAL), OC Travis Frederick (DAL), KR/PR/RB Darren Sproles (PHI), S Eric Weddle(SD), LB Terrell Suggs (BAL), K Adam Vinatieri (NE)
2026: QB Drew Brees (NO)*, WR Larry Fitzgerald (ARZ)*, QB Philip Rivers (SD), TE Jason Witten (DAL), TE Greg Olson (CAL), OC Maurkice Pouncy (PITT), WR Julian Edelman(NE), RB Frank Gore (SF), LeSean Mccoy (PHIL)
After Kroenke and the owners paid a huge settlement to St Louis and an army of lawyers, I believe the Rams will win it all in LA against Buffalo.
RIP Don Maynard and Ralph Neely
Neely has a case for the HOF
Neeley may have a case but unfortunately plenty of all decade team members with 2-3 all pro selections aren’t in Hall and sit in seniors pool, I just don’t see rising to finalist anytime soon
I don’t remember Neeley playing like a HOFer.
TonyP… I think his peak was just too short. His best years were late 1960s before Cowboys reached first SB. He then broke his leg in motorcycle accident mid season in 1971 and was not starter for Cowboys first SB. Was solid starter for rest of career 1972-77, but did not make one Pro bowl during those years. Rayfield Wright was best Cowboys OL in late 60s into mid 70s and took years to get in Hall. Too many other seniors, OL and also Cowboys (Howley, Walls) to think Neeley deserves to be in Hall or ever elected in.
I cant believe the Rams signed Weddle. Will he play against the Cards ? He may be used to spy on Murray the whole game …
Weddle must of lost a step by now. I have no clue who wins that game .
Playoff predictions …
Sat games … Bengals and Bills
Sun games … Bucs, 49ers, Steelers — two upsets
Mond game … Rams
With Kelce at center and Williams at tackle making the All-Pro team, should help their cases for the HOF.
The Watt brothers should make it as well, unless TJ has a career threatening injury.
Surprised only Taylor made it as a RB … was hoping Chubb or Henry would join him, though Henry missed too many games …
Davante Adams better hope Rodgers returns to the Packers but if they get upset in the playoffs, this could be it … some have speculated that Rodgers could replace Big Ben in Pittsburgh but I doubt it.
Our playoff picks: https://www.zoneblitz.com/2022/01/14/playoff-picks-wild-card-weekend-2021/
It’s PFHOF Election Day for class of 2022, although we won’t know results until NFL honors show Feb 10th
A long day indeed …
Could voters, press or writers spill the beans on any of the five elected towards the end of the month?
I won 5 of 6 picks this weekend, though it was hardly a Super Wild Card Weekend. For me, having 14 teams instead of 12 in the playoffs was ludicrous and the results showed with both 7th seeded teams getting blown out. I still believe the top two seeds in each conference should get a bye.
Stafford gets his first taste of victory in the playoffs while once again, Dallas blows their opportunity.
All the flags were ridiculous at the end of that game but even worse was running a QB draw and then not having the ball spotted with enough time to stop the clock. What hurts the Cowboys is that they dominate and easy division but don’t play well enough against higher quality opponents.
I never would have believed the Bills would dominate a Belichick-coached defense like that. Now we will see if they can get revenge on the Chiefs.
Sorry, but I believe it’s time for Mike Tomlin to go. Yes, he has won ALOT of games but since losing the 2010/11 SB, his Steelers teams have gone 3-7 in the postseason since and have squandered a HOF QB.
In their last four postseason games –all losses–the Steelers have been outscored 171-117, with many of their points scored in garbage time, playing catch-up.
I just wonder if Doug Pederson could come in and reinvigorate the team ?
Early picks for next weekends Divisional Games
Sat picks … Titans and Bills
Sun picks … Rams and Packers
Thank God there isn’t another Monday playoff game.
“Could voters, press or writers spill the beans on any of the five elected towards the end of the month?”
Count me among those shocked last year when with three weeks between votes and official announcement there were no leaks-including with filming of the knock videos!!
and I believe one reason it did not happen as although voters knew the final 10, the last round of voting was secret ballot and not disclosed to them the final 5 elected.
So I don’t see voters leaking BUT those elected (and not) will get all called today, could be a friend or family member links that news or in the coming weeks as Hall films the “knock videos”. Leak are always possible but perhaps like 2021, we don’t get any….
Class of 2022 voting complete – now we just wait until NFL honors show, 9-11pm on Thurs Feb10th
Bruce Arians says Wr Mike Evans is the best Wr he’s ever coached. Hmm I haven’t seen him being better than Larry Fitzgerald but maybe?
I haven’t seen a well played Playoff game by both teams yet. I hope I’ll be wrong about my SB pick of Buffalo vs Green Bay but I think the Bills beat the Chiefs like they did early in season. It’s a bad match up. I hope I’m wrong. .Gosh I hope the Rams beat Brady!! LOL
Wow, the cold was the great equalizer. Down goes Green Bay! Could the path be clearing for Brady? LOL Got to give it to San Fran special teams and D.
Does Deebo Samuel remind you guys of any talent of the past? I’m struggling to think of a really good WR who could turn into a RB. He seems to of put on weight since he got into the League. He’s now 6′ 215lbs now which OK size for a RB. He packs a punch and moves a little like Mark Duper.
Lenny Moore is the best all-time at converting from WR to RB. The Raiders used to occasionally line up Rocket Ismail in the back field, but not to much success and of course Corderelle Patterson had a very good year and should have been Pro-bowler with his versatility. He was very good running between the tackles this year.
First time two 1st seed lost on same day in divisional round, thinking any two teams losing from game winning FG on same day is rare
Good pick of Moore, Bill . I don’t know a lot about him. I’m thinking there was a player with the Redskins also, Bobby Mitchell?
Yeah Paul it was a strange day in history. It may of been Rodgers last best chance at a SB. I was rooting for him to get a second SB win. Too great of a player not to have two IMO.
Mitchell did the opposite of Moore. He went from RB to WR. But Frank Gifford went from WR to RB and became a HOfamer.
How about Brady today, even though they lost he almost had another big time playoff comeback. Interesting to see if he finally retires. Gronk and Sherman as well.
This weekend could have been end of one QB era and start of the next
What an incredible weekend. Mahomes v Allen looks like the new Brady v Manning.
If the Bucs had won the title again this year I would’ve said Brady retires 100%. I’m now 50/50, and yes Gronk goes too the minute Brady walks away.
I still think Brady keeps playing. He got pressured today but still avoids huge hits and stays healthy.
I wasn’t a huge fan of this weekend’s games. I felt the Titans and Packers choked their games away while today’s games were just crazy basketball scores.
No defense at all in the last three minutes of both games and how the hell does a defense give up 80 yards and an FG in 13 seconds? The Networks may love this “entertainment” but I don’t. Yes, the players were gassed but still …
With that being said, you have to give the Bengals, Niners, Rams, and Chiefs credit for finding a way to get the wins, no matter how crazy the games were.
legit question brian does it matter about the defense in both of those games today
I’m through predicting winners. LOL! Like I say the NFL has figured out how to squeeze out as much excitement out of the game as possible. The talent in the passing game is so advanced to 50 years ago. It feels like the cherished great games of the past like the “Sea of Hands Game “28-26 once considered one of the greatest playoff game can’t really compare to today. I know that sounds like football sacrilege. But to me Football all of a sudden feels like a very different game. It’s bound to happen with all of the advantages players have today. I think it’s happened especially in the last 10 years. Seems like the QB’s and Receivers are really getting so much better. The Defenses just let down for a few minutes and there’s an explosion of points. Tyreek Hill HOFer :) I think at some point soon we may want to think of the 1960’s and 70’s as not being in modern day football? Just my opinion.
Sorry Robert but NFL football wasn’t meant to be like a video game or Arena League. Tired or not, defenders have to hit and hold offensive players on the line and not allow long throws. Especially in the now, notorious 13 Second Game. Even if the Bills blitzed everybody, it would have forced Mahomes to throw quickly for a short gain or incompletion.
Despite its “Great Game” status, the Chiefs were the only game to cover the spread this weekend.
ill disagree brian and end it there
Its no problem, I respect everyone’s opinion. The game was excellent going into the 4th quarter, even though at that time I knew TDs would be scored at the end. By the time KC took the lead with Hill, I knew both defenses were gone but once Buffalo got the lead, I thought defending 13 SECONDS would not be too bad … Whatever
Fair enough brian glad we can settle this without arguing
I feel you Brian! It’s hard for a football purist to swallow. It’s craziness the way Defense go completely away. At least the whole game wasn’t that way
When Ken Stabler threw that TD in the sea of hands game their was time left for Bob Griese. Damn he under performed! He had way more than 13 seconds left. LOL!! I think he had almost a minute left and he threw an interception but everyone knew that game was over. Not in today’s game! QB’s are too good and Defenses are wore out by the end of the game usually. :)
Sorry, TonyP but I don’t feel Griese underperformed in that game. He called a beautiful game as the running game dominated but when Warfield dropped that TD pass, it gave the Raiders new life.
Had Malone stopped short of the endzone, the Dolphins could have ate more time but they needed the TD and he got it. Snake was up to the challenge but with Scott injured, the Raiders had a much easier time going down the field.
Robert, I like to disagree and argue but in good fun and bragging rights. No malice or bullying here.
Thank God I didn’t bet on these games because I knew upsets would happen, I just didn’t think it would be the Titans and Packers. Despite Bills “heroics” the Chiefs still covered the spread.
I know you guys arent sceptics or believe in point-shaving but I hope you read Brian Touhy’s website thefixisin … very interesting if nothing else.
Rams over Chiefs in SB … I hope I am wrong but Kroenke might get the last laugh after he and other owners paid nearly 1 billion to the city of St Louis.
To answer your question TonyP, watching Deebo Samuel in the game against the Packers, he reminded me of Sterling Sharpe with his size and physicality. Could you imagine Brady or Rodgers next year throwing/handing off to him ?
Sean Payton is leaving the Saints. Without Brees, this season exhausted him. Could the Cowboys try to get him ?
Payton “traded” to Cowboys in 2023 is very likely outcome – making it NFC championship or bust for MM in Dallas in 2022.
Last week was best set of four divisional round games I have ever seen (been watching playoffs since 1978), I get that defensive tight games are also great (who doesn’t love a 14-10 game), that is largely not the league that exists today given rules that favor offense and protect QBs/WRs. And huge TV/streaming rates show fans love it when great QBs battle back and forth with game decided right at the end.
Brian, NFL football has evolved over the last 100 years, we can pine for the 1970s but its not coming back, in fact been gone now for over 40 years. Defense can still matter, turn a game around, create a win, save a loss, yet the game in recent decades is about QBs and offense, like it or not its what we have and what vast majority and millions of fans want and enjoy. So sit back, relax and take it all in. It may be a different type of game but it has its greatness that if we wish for the past we are missing on the historical current and present.
Legit Question who is the best senior Candidate for each team Remaining Rams 49ers Bengals Chiefs
I see what youre saying Paul but I remember when Arena Football came out and thinking, yeah no defense whatsoever but it’s entertaining for fans and kids who like seeing players running and jumping around. The NFL has slowly evolved into the same thing. Why not just call it the NFFL … The National Flag Football League … haha
I still feel everything truly changed when Seattle and its Legion Of Boom defense humiliated the Broncos and Peyton Manning in the 2013/14 SB … the NFL has been trying to handcuff defenses ever since, though ironically, they let defenses play in the SBs while holding back the flags, which is why we have seen rare, defensive gems like the Denver win in the 2015/16 SB and the Patriots win in the 2018/19 SB.
Seriously though Robert, I have noticed occasional correlations between SB teams and recently voted in players to the HOF … I joked with some friends last year that when John Lynch was voted in, it could be a sign of a TB victory in the SB but I believed KC would go back-to-back and I didn’t bet money on the Bucs and Brady and wouldn’t you know!
Top Senior Candidates
Bengals … Parrish
Chiefs … Tyrer
Rams … Ellard or Meador
49ers … Woodson or Craig
Now, I still hold the belief that we will never see a back-to-back champion again because Vegas, the Networks, and the NFL love upsets in the postseason. I hope I am wrong …
Bengals- Ken Anderson
Chiefs- Jim Tyrer (never happen) Otis Taylor
Rams- Eddie Meador
49ers- Roger Criag
Big Ben just retired. If Brady, Gronk, Peterson. JJ watt, Sherman and Aaron Rodgers retired plus others who could…what choices!
Brian focus on offenses and NFL setting rules to favor them goes back to 1970s yet interestingly it was TBay defense and not Tom Brady that won SB – defense can still be critical part of game and win games including SBs
So Vegas, Networks, officials and league all conspired to block TB from winning last week so they wouldn’t win back to back SB???? I will have what you are drinking or smoking to believe that.
Brian, I was comparing Griese’s last few seconds of the game to Mahomes. It was tongue in cheek. :) I think Sean Payton takes a year off but maybe Jerry can twist his arm.
Never is a long time on back to backs. Too many great QB’s not see it. Might see it with Cinncy if they get lucky and can get a SB win this year. Burrow reminds me of Brady or Montana just starting out. He’s certainly Joe “cool” with the right stuff.
And there is no consistent trend of players associated with teams in final four or SB appearances then getting into Hall, especially seniors selected 6 months after game. Plus in 2021 and this year, election of modern candidates was done even before divisional round so that timing doesn’t work either
Haha … I love stirring the pot. We all saw the TB-Rams game. It looked like pitch and catch for the Rams offense who should have went up 34-3. Then in the second half, they tried to give it away but won it.
For some reason I dont believe Big Ben will be first ballot but I think Brady, Gronk and Rodgers will keep playing.
I wonder if Matt Ryan will stay with Atlanta ?
If Brady plays in 2022, Ben R will be first ballot in 2027. And Rams defense pressed Brady most of the game – so yea defense still matters and impacts games. Cap hit will keep Falcons from moving Ryan this year, they will draft his replacement and move on in 2023
Thanks, Paul …
Wasn’t sure if HC Smith would dump him but in fairness to Ryan, he didn’t have his top receiver in Ridley, who quit on his team.
The best divisional round of playoffs I ever saw was back in 1980/81, as I was 12 years old and falling in love with the pro game. Dallas over Atlanta with White to Pearson, The Eagles coming back to beat the Vikings, whose turnovers killed them. In the AFC, the Chargers beat Buffalo in the last two minutes and the Raiders intercept Brian Sipe in Cleveland. I thought for sure the Browns would win it …
I believe in 2027, Peterson will be first ballot but not Big Ben or JJ Watt, though it will be close. Watt could try to play again next year, with his brother doing so well but can he stay healthy for 2022 ? It will be interesting to see if the 49ers keep Garoppolo. If they win or lose, I think they bring him back. Unless Brady or Rodgers came into play …
They should start the bust for Brady now. Even though he just retired…Could he be a QB for hire next year? If not, what a class for 2027!
After much of a drought on QBs recently here comes the wave in late 2020s: Brees, Brady, BenR, Eli, Rivers(?), eventually Rodgers – could be 6-7 in about decade of elections.
I don’t believe the rumors of Brady retiring, especially from ESPN … Even if he did, he may persuade TB to send his rights to SF and play there but we will see.
I really don’t believe Eli, Ryan or Rivers makes it. It would be funny if Brees was on the first ballot but Big Ben wasn’t …
Rodgers, I believe will retire by 2024 along with Stafford but we will see what Stafford has done with the Rams.
Brady is retiring (but always possible he returns in 2023)
Someone wrote an article suggesting Matthew Stafford would be a HOFer if he won a SB. I still don’t think he’s better than Philip Rivers and I’m not sure if he makes it.
Brady’s Dad is denying his Son is retiring.
Is Cliff Branch the only senior player eligible for HOF this year?
Yep we are still in cycle of just one senior finalist each year
SB MVP would really move Staffords Hall case up
Chiefs really screwed the pooch in game and really hurting their dynasty case
Brady’s done
The Chiefs really screwed up not scoring to end the first half and getting too cute on the drive where they end up with their last FG instead of getting a TD for the lead. A Tale Of Two Halves. Burrow was like Houdini escaping the Chiefs pass rush in the second half.
An old school physical game with the Rams-Niners and I loved it despite alot of borderline hits and dropped balls. Jimmy G had played well until the final possession, where the Rams FINALLY got to him.
So, here we are with the second consecutive home-field site for the SB … Will Stafford give Kroenke the Trophy ?
If Stafford wins the SB and can get his starting record to .500 in the next two to three years, it will help any talk of HOF, though its still doubtful to me.
As we all know, postseason success and a SB championship can help players cases for the HOF later on … Who can benefit from this SB ?
Rams
Von Miller … Injuries and sub-par play have hurt Miller since Manning retired from the Broncos but another championship should cement his HOF career.
Aaron Donald … Already first ballot when eligible but the cherry on top.
Odell Beckham … This SB could rejuvenate his career, if he can continue to play and stay hungry.
Jalen Ramsey … Despite being a disruption on the Jaguars who got his wish to be traded, has been a great player for the Rams who paid a huge price to get him. Has to continue to stay hungry but a SB will only help his future HOF chances …
Eric Weddle … Already a great career, a SB win would be a great ending to his 2021/22 story …
Andrew Whitfield … Another chance to win a SB after a great career …
Matthew Stafford … A SB win could give him a Jim Plunkett type story as well and can only help him moving forward …
Cooper Kupp … Only getting better with Stafford aboard …
Bengals
Sky is the limit for young players, Burrow, Chase, Higgins and Mixon. Chase and Burrow are already superstars.
Bell, Hargreaves and Awuzie are high picks from other teams who can help keep this young team a contender …
Kansas City blew it! I couldn’t believe they went for it before Halftime. That’s not smart football. This is the Championship Game!
Burrow could be the only Heisman winner, National Championship winner and Super Bowl winner in history and do it in 3 years.
If Stafford gets SB win and quits (I doubt would happen) I still don’t see him with better HOF case than Philip Rivers.
I’m not saying Drew Pearson is exactly Lynn Swann but Pearson – Branch does feel a lot like Swann – Stallworth. You almost have to put Branch in now and a hard a$$ critic could say all four had Hall of Very Good careers with some great moments. Of the four how would you rate them as WR’s?
Stallworth
Branch
Pearson
Swann
“Burrow could be the only Heisman winner, National Championship winner and Super Bowl winner in history and do it in 3 years. ”
Tony Dorsett did that in 2 years (1976-1977 seasons), but Burrow would be first QB to do it.
For me, Swann was the most talented of the four, with Stallworth the most productive. Branch and Pearson were clutch as well with Branch stretching the field, while Pearson was snatching postseason victories away from defeats …
Jerick McKinnon was very effective for the Chiefs in the first half. Why didnt they utilize him more in the second half ? How could Hill, Kelce and Hardman all just disappear ?
Good one Paul! Someone told me that and I tried my best think of someone to disprove and couldn’t.
I don’t know Brian. Just a small sample but looking at old film of all of them I’m not seeing it with Swann compared to the others. The only reason I put Stallworth over Branch is because of his size because both were speed burners. All were talented no doubt. Swann was the most polished WR coming into the League from USC. Speed kills! LOL Branch stayed fast for his whole career. Reminds me of Darrel Green.
I’ve got a question, Drew Pearson was un-Drafted into the NFL. Has their ever been another HOFer who was unDrafted?
Brady retired! The season will have to start before I believe it. :)
I would rank them
1. Stallworth
2. Swann
3. Branch
4. Pearson
I would also stick Carmichael between Swann and Branch
Brian- Von Miller is getting into HOF on 1st or second Ballot even if he does not win another SB. Also the Chiefs skills places did not do what they needed to in the second half, because of what you want in your games…Defense. The Bengals Defense took away the option, by Playing zone and putting a spy on Mahomes. Chiefs actually should have the run the ball more at the beginning of the 2nd half,..But Bengals were the better tam that day.
Cliff Harris was also undrafted.. I believe there are several other undrafted players in the PFHOF. Don’t have the list handy.
and class of 2027 is shaping up to potentially a very interesting debate with Brady, BenR, Gronk (likely), A Peterson (likely), Rodgers (possible but seems unlikely) and others on the ballot, since finalist round made public in 1970 there has never been a four member 1st ballot class. With many voters already complaining about too many first ballot, that could be a wild debate and outcome.
And I guess folks owe apologies to reporters who first broke the Brady news last weekend-they were right after all.
With a SB win (especially MVP) Stafford would really help his case, KC lost really hurts their legacy and fails to lock in Hall for some of their guys.
Warner was also undrafted …
Donnie Shell, Warren Moon, Larry Little, John Randle, Jim Langer, Mick Tingelhoff, Willie Wood, Willie Brown, Emmitt Thomas, Night Train Lane., Marion Motley. Emlen Tunnell, Lou Groza, Bill Willis, Joe Perry were also undrafted.
Brady just wanted to announce the news himself and not be leaked in a tweet. Despite his denials he had already made the decision.
If this is also the end for Gronk and Peterson then there should be four first ballot guys. Vote on merit If they’re worthy. Not every year will be like 2027.
I guess I need to see more film on Swann. I don’t remember him as well as the others. I know he was a favorite of the media. I can still hear the Monday Night Football crew swooning over him. LOL
Wow I didn’t know the list of undrafted was so big. There goes my theory they don’t like to elect low draft picks. lol
Swann trained for ballet dancing and trust me, he never waited for the ball to fall into his hands, he went up and got it. Terry Bradshaw loved throwing it up to him. His career would have been different if he could have withstood all the concussions but teams knew they had to find away to take him out of ballgames …
Let’s say it ends up Brady, BenR, AP, Gronk for first ballot class of 2027, there will another 11 deserving candidates and very well voters could decide BenR is not worthy 1st ballot and decide to fill 2 remaining slot to returning candidates. That would be a very possible outcome and one I would suggest more likely then four 1st ballot players (which has never occurred), since voters already debating issue of too many 1st ballot and need to respect other waiting deserving returning candidates.
I believe youre right Paul …
Yes, it sounds strange that a gifted QB who wins 2/3 SBs would not get in first ballot but Big Ben could be an unusual exception …
First, he joined an already talented, winning team and won a SB his second season.
He won two SBs and went to three in his first seven seasons but in his next eleven seasons only went to one AFC Championship game, though the team had winning years. As a champion and winner he will get in. Yet his teams did nothing in the postseason from 2011-2021. I blame his HC, who has had plenty of talent but have had their defenses get shredded in the postseason.
Ben with still probably be first ballot and rightfully so, but if he had to wait, it will not surprise me.
I know about Swann’s training and remember the beating he took going across the middle. Why do you think he is a controversial choice for HOF for so many? I don’t think it’s the idea it’s so much because of a short career. Oh, I remember he had a reputation for being soft. That’s not fair and ultimately didn’t hurt with the voters that mattered. He certainly would have fair much better in today’s game. To me just doesn’t look like the athlete on film as Stallworth or Branch. Looking at Pearson I’d put him above Pearson. I don’t doubt his skill as a WR. He was a number one draft pick. I’d like to see more film on him.
Funny how a few years ago there was debate if Big Ben was a HOFer. I watched all of talking head sports shows. lol Now as he got close to retirement everyone got sentimental and he’s a HOFer and probably a 1st Ballot. Haha. Putting in all those years and making the Playoffs he’s a shoe in and if works out I’d put him as a 1st Ballot. They don’t win the first SB if he doesn’t make a great tackle after Bettis fumbled the ball. Ben wasn’t a top numbers Fantasy guy but knew how to get it done as QB. He could of done a little better in Playoffs the last half of his career but the bottom line he was a winner.
Exactly one week until class of 2022 announced during NFL Honors Show
There is speculation on the PFRA site that Young or Mills may get in over Thomas. Though Thomas is newer to the queue, he might have to wait.
Some think Allen as well but I don’t think he will be favored over Ware.
Still sticking with my prediction
Branch
Vermeil
McNally
Boselli
Butler
Seymour
Thomas
R Barber
We are working on posting a class of 2022 predictions new thread which should be up shortly – check back tonight
will it be up soon paul?
Its up Robert, just scroll down to recent comments