So we’re just a few days removed from Matthew Stafford leading riding Cooper Kupp’s coattails in the Lions Rams’ Super Bowl victory, and as with all first-time QB Super Bowl winners, the Hall of Fame questions have started.
Unlike two years ago, when I think it was mostly parody asking about Patrick Mahomes (who may well be on his way, but was only in his second full year as a starter), Stafford actually has a resume built up that can be analyzed:
13 years in the league
49,995 yards passing (12th all-time)
323 touchdowns (12th all-time)
91.1 career rating (21st all-time)
34 comebacks, 42 game-winning drives
1 Super Bowl victory
Of course, he also has a few other career highlights:
One Pro Bowl appearance (which shocks me…even this year he didn’t make it)
Zero All-Pro selections
7 losing seasons (out of 12 years that he started at least 8 games)
Only four playoff appearances, and zero wins before this season
Richard Sherman weighed in on Twitter:
“I’m gonna talk about it on the podcast but the HOF bar is incredibly low now. Like a participation trophy. No all decade team. No All pro. No MVP. 1 Pro bowl. Not even MVP of the SB. Never considered the best in any year he played. At least M Ryan has an MVP.”
“There is no measuring stick that makes Stafford a Hall of Famer other than playing in the most passer happy decade in NFL history. Inflated numbers make ever QB that starts 10+ years a ‘hof.’”
So did Michael Robinson, for what it’s worth:
“Yes he’s a gold jacket, ABSOLUTELY. The ultimate team goal, to win a Lombardi, Matthew Stafford actually has, and he was a huge part of winning this Super Bowl.”
“And now … the debate on the HOF? We shouldn’t be talking about the HOF because he isn’t done playing the game yet. If you don’t believe he is a HOFer … I can’t wait for him to prove you wrong in his remaining years … just like he did IN ONE YEAR to everyone who said all the things listed above. So let’s table this talk until he actually retires? Thank you.”
Something something something…with no Thursday games this week, we got picks done, but forgot to get them posted.
Pretty sure we tied last week, despite an atrocious start to Tony’s picks — Andy missed a bunch at the bottom to make up for it.
Week 16
Tie: 8-8
Season
Tony 120-119-1
Here are the picks.
1) Andy – Patriots over Jaguars – New England stumbled against Buffalo last week, but the Patriots are still playoff bound. Jacksonville lost James Robinson last week, a terrible individual result for the team as it winds down yet another terrible season. All hope should be about lost.
One week after possibly the most lopsided loss in this segment (a 12-3 shellacking by Andy), and we’re right back to … tying. Not a typical tie where we both nailed all our picks, of course — no, an ugly tie that featured misses on the top three picks. Ugly indeed.
Week 9
Tie – 7-7
Season
Tony 71-65
1) Tony – Steelers over Lions – Despite Big Ben looking to be 103 years old, the Steelers have quietly remained relevant in a muddled AFC, currently sitting in the 2nd wildcard spot. The Lions are coming off a bye week that had many NFL Meme sites posting that they unfortunately lost to the bye week, 27-24.
Some big talk last week from Andy, who failed to back it up in the picks or straight up, with Tony winning picks 10-6, and winning straight up picks 9-7 vs 8-8. Admittedly, it was a case of both of us getting several wrong in picks, rather than one of us nailing things–as our straight up picks can attest to. And the only difference we had in straight up picks was the final game choice of the week, with the Dolphins giving me the slight edge.
Week 2 finds still not a lot of games to feel great about, especially after the clunkers put on by the Packers, Titans and Falcons (who were never going to win a lot of games, but…6 points against an NFC East team). On to the picks!
1) Tony – Buccaneers over Falcons – Three games with double digit lines this week, but I’m not comfortable enough with the third one to to go 2-3 in the picks. I’ll take the Super Bowl champs on three days extra rest against a team that looked absolutely hapless on Sunday against a team that I thought might be in line for the first overall pick.
A couple weeks back, ProFootballReference.com, the most comprehensive database of football stats online, announced that they were adding unofficial sack totals to player stats from 1960 to 1981, after two researchers compiled the data utilizing box scores, game stories and film.
One of the researchers, Jack Turney, was quoted in this 2006 story about Michael Strahan’s career sack total vs Lawrence Taylor, who’s rookie season of 1981 isn’t counted amongst the official sack totals. Even in 2006, Turney had data back to 1970 for stats.
While no mention is made of the bogus Strahan single season sack record—bogus both because of the pathetic “sack” that set the record, and because the unofficial stats show that the record was actually 23 sacks, set by Al Baker in his 1978 rookie season—the article did mention the opinion that:
“Turney’s research undoubtedly helped Youngblood reach the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2001, 17 years after he left the game.”
Interesting, because when I first heard about the unofficial stats being published, on a local sports radio show, my thoughts (and the hosts, I believe) also immediately thought of another Hall of Fame candidacy—that of Minnesota Vikings Purple People Eater Jim Marshall.
Marshall is largely known for two things from his career—his Iron Man streak of 282 games played (and 270 consecutive starts), and famously scoring a safety for the San Francisco 49ers, running the wrong direction after picking up a fumble in a 1964 matchup. Interestingly, he is less known for holding the NFL record for most career fumble recoveries in a career, with 30—a stat that I have to admit forgetting about myself.
Perhaps less known about Marshall, though, is that he too was a prolific sacker of the quarterback—his Wikipedia page already credited him with 127 sacks unofficially, and the data from ProFootballReference.com puts him at 130.5 sacks—good for 22nd all-time (tied with Coy Bacon).
Ahead of Marshall on the unofficial list, only Julius Peppers (159.5), Terrell Suggs (139), DeMarcus Ware (138.5), Jared Allen (136), John Abraham (133.5), Leslie O’Neal (132.5), and Baker (131) are not in the Hall of Fame (along with Bacon). Peppers, Suggs, Ware and Allen seem likely to get in the Hall of Fame, while I have heard arguments made for Abraham and O’Neal to eventually make it too.
Many will argue that Marshall got that many sacks because of how long he played (18 seasons in the NFL), and because many of those seasons were played with Alan Page (148.5 sacks unofficially) and Carle Eller (133.5 sacks unofficially), both members of the Hall. And those people aren’t wrong—but he still got the sacks.
And that Iron Man streak—the current active leader for consecutive starts, Ndamukong Suh, would need to start every game for more than the next seven seasons to reach that mark, even with 17 game seasons –is frankly amazing. Especially playing in the trenches, in an era with less than stellar medical capabilities.
So will this new data from ProFootballReference.com make much difference in Marshall’s claim to a spot in Canton? Based on the previous unofficial count of 127 sacks, it only actually moved him up one spot—from 24th overall, behind Hall of Famer Claude Humphrey (130 sacks) and ahead of Hall of Famer Derrick Thomas (126.5). One Vikings blog points out that his comparatively paltry four seasons of 10+ sacks, 12 seasons of less than seven sacks, and career average of 6.5 sacks per year don’t compare favorably to current Viking Hall of Famers Carl Eller, Alan Page, Chris Doleman and John Randle–nor likely Hall of Famer Allen, or even not likely Hall of Famer Everson Griffen.
So maybe the data won’t help—even though sacks aren’t the only thing for defensive linemen (especially since they didn’t officially exist until 1981), and the abundance of 70’s Vikings already in the Hall may also continue to work against him.
But as all true homer fans will do, I will continue to bang the drum (or blow the Gjallarhorn) for Marshall until he gets that call.
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